Yao Ming or Dwight Howard? Who would you take starting a franchise.

[scottsauce88]

Originally Posted by Pretty Toney

Originally Posted by Scottsauce88

How exactly is Dwight Howard better than Yao right now? He has no consistent offensive game other than dunking the ball when he's within a foot of the basket, put backs, and alleyoops. If he catches the ball outside of 5ft, he's more than likely to pass the ball or brick it. Yeah Dwight grabs a few more boards and blocks a few more shots. Overall though, I believe Yao is a better player and I'd rather have him on my team. He's leaps and bounds better than Dwight on the offensive end (it's not close) and he's no slouch on the defensive end either. Being 7'6 allows you to change a lot of shots even if you don't necessarily block them.

Somehow Dwight Howard's measly offensive game manages to get him 20ppg.

This is what I don't understand. For someone who is soooooo poor offensively...he's still putting up 21 a game.




exactly. Sure he doesnt have the greatest post moves in the world but he still gets it done. Im not picking a center to take fadaway shots from the baselineor jumpers from 15 feet out. Im picking a damn center to play in the lane on offense and patrol the lane on defense.

How old is Dwight Howard, like 24 and he's already defensive player of the year. Everyone talks about Dwights horrible offense, but no one talks about hisgreat defense.

 

[biggie62]

Originally Posted by Big J 33

Dwight.

Has the athleticism and size to dominant on that alone.

He's developed a better post game over the past couple seasons.

Once he can shoot a better FT% and develop a shot on the floor, he'll be unstoppable.

Problem is he never will develop any of this. In 5 years in the league or 4 all he got was a running mini hook. No face up jumper. Still shoots50% from the FT line. He's a more athletic Shaq without the moves is what I see when I look at him. He relys too much off his athleticism. And as big ashe is and as cut as he is. He isn't all that strong. I mean look at shaq his first fw years int he league when he was skinnny. He bodied people still. Howard just doesn't have the ability to body people consistently.

 

[scottsauce88]

Originally Posted by C5A5D5A5

WOOPS. DWIGHT HE SHOOTS 59%, Like O.M.G.

that .5% is imperritive to this argument

you mean 5%

. If were going to play it that way Yao only shots 2.5%better than Dwight

 

[c5a5d5a5]

Originally Posted by Scottsauce88

Originally Posted by C5A5D5A5

WOOPS. DWIGHT HE SHOOTS 59%, Like O.M.G.

that .5% is imperritive to this argument

you mean 5%

. If were going to play it that way Yao only shots 2.5% better than Dwight

so true

how about that yao though. Always shooting fadeaways

silly giant.

 

[dl2352]

Originally Posted by Scottsauce88

How exactly is Dwight Howard better than Yao right now? He has no consistent offensive game other than dunking the ball when he's within a foot of the basket, put backs, and alleyoops. If he catches the ball outside of 5ft, he's more than likely to pass the ball or brick it. Yeah Dwight grabs a few more boards and blocks a few more shots. Overall though, I believe Yao is a better player and I'd rather have him on my team. He's leaps and bounds better than Dwight on the offensive end (it's not close) and he's no slouch on the defensive end either. Being 7'6 allows you to change a lot of shots even if you don't necessarily block them.

I like how everyone makes Dwight Howard out to be a terrible offensive player. Yeah, Ill agree he doesnt have great footwork, but neither does Yao. Yao is a damn good shooter for a big man but im not picking a center on the fact that he can shoot because most great centers cant. Somehow Dwight Howard's measly offensive game manages to get him 20ppg. Somehow having an athletic Howard allows you to play any style you want whether it is slowing the tempo down or speeding it up. You cant do that with Yao, he gets too damn tired, as he should. Howard is a FAR better defender than Yao, he rebounds better and statistically speaking he is better in every single category other than damn free throw percentage. Not to mention he plays more than half a season.....

I honestly dont see how you take Yao over Dwight at this point.

Tim Duncan is a POWER FORWARD.

obviously the analogy went way over your head
Actually, Yao has excellent footwork. Maybe it's because he's 7'6 that causes people to have this misconception. As far as shootinggoes, I consider a player's post game part of their shooting. Yao can get you buckets in a variety of ways. He has the most polished post game of anycenter in the league right now. Like I said earlier in the thread, his turn around fadeaway from anywhere between 5-15ft is $$.

You make it sound like having any semblance of an offensive game is a negative

Just because your idea of a great center can't shoot doesn't meanit's something you don't take into consideration. Having a center able to stretch the floor and keep the opposite team's defense honest isextremely important to your team. You think teams are really worried about Dwight catching the ball 10ft away from the basket?

As far as Dwight's athleticism goes, hell yeah he's a great athlete and explosive as hell. What about when that explosiveness is gone though? He'snot going to be catching these oops and just overpowering these other centers when he gets older. He's NO Shaq. Even now, when he's matched up againsta legit big man he can't overpower (like Yao), he struggles to get buckets.What is he going to fall back on? His infantile post game? His imaginarymid-range J? I hate even having this argument because I love watching Dwight Howard play but the guy has shown zero signs of ever developing a mid-range shotand his post game is extremely primitive. Hopefully Patrick Ewing, a great shooting center, can get his post game going.

Finally... what analogy? You listed a bunch of big men with poor free throw shooting % and that's a fine example that big men can get away with not beinggreat FT shooters. This is a thread talking about Yao and Dwight... who are centers. Why bring Tim Duncan into the conversation? On top of that, Shaq and Timmyboth possess excellent offensive games. Shaq wasn't just dominant because of his size, he was able to get his shot off in a variety of ways. Tim Duncan isarguably the best power forward ever. Who has perfected the bank shot quite like him? Again, I can't speak on Wilt since I didn't watch him play.

 

[franchise3]

I'm not saying Yao is better than so or so. But I think you can win more with a C like Yao. He has a better skill set, and dude is just way too big at7'6. Dude has range, is unstoppable when he catches it deep, hits FT's when it matters, and is a great passer.

You're right about the whole 2 mins thing, but again, what's the point of playing four on five on the offensive end if you're worried aboutthrowing the ball into your franchise player?

For as good as Dwight is, Yao has owned him every time they've matched up.

It's arguable who's the best C in the game is, but, give me the bigger guy, the guy with a wider skillset, and the guy who's edged out the otherguy nearly every time they've matched up.

 

[N41D]

@ anybody acting like Dwight Howard hasn't improved DRASTICALLY on the offensive end over the course of his career so far...

If you don't think he has, you haven't been watching...

 

[kiddin like jason]

@ anybody acting like Dwight Howard hasn't improved DRASTICALLY on the offensive end over the course of his career so far...

If you don't think he has, you haven't been watching...

 

[skip0011]

dwight in a heartbeat.

 

[big j 33]

Originally Posted by Biggie62

Originally Posted by Big J 33

Dwight.

Has the athleticism and size to dominant on that alone.

He's developed a better post game over the past couple seasons.

Once he can shoot a better FT% and develop a shot on the floor, he'll be unstoppable.

Problem is he never will develop any of this. In 5 years in the league or 4 all he got was a running mini hook. No face up jumper. Still shoots 50% from the FT line. He's a more athletic Shaq without the moves is what I see when I look at him. He relys too much off his athleticism. And as big as he is and as cut as he is. He isn't all that strong. I mean look at shaq his first fw years int he league when he was skinnny. He bodied people still. Howard just doesn't have the ability to body people consistently.

Thanks for that insight. So there's no chance that a 23 year old player can develop a better shot... none at all? Dwight isn't allthat strong???

It's pretty clear you never watch many of his games, I watch nearly all the Magic games and I've been following him closely since he came into the L,and he's made impressive strides thus far. He's still only 23 years old and to claim that he can't develop a shot is absurd. Hopefully he keepsworking with Patrick Ewing and he can help Dwight develop a better shot.

Also to quote

Originally Posted by Kiddin Like Jason

@ anybody acting like Dwight Howard hasn't improved DRASTICALLY on the offensive end over the course of his career so far...

If you don't think he has, you haven't been watching...

 

[ctdaprince]

Originally Posted by C5A5D5A5

Originally Posted by Pretty Toney

@ the thought of Free Throws being the sole reason why someone is better than another.

I guess Yao is better than Shaq ever was then too right?

A. 19.7 ppg B. 20.6
9.9 rpg 13.8
1.8 apg 1.4
.4 spg 1.0
2.0 bpg 2.9
86% FT 54%

dude listed this years stats like it was a clear cut decision and as if dwights avg's blew yao out of the water. He forgot to list the ft%

those stats are pretty damn similar.

dwight clearly grabs 4 more boards a game and yao is clearly money from the charity stripe.

I want a real damn center. Yao has an answer for every kind of defender he faces. If he gets bullied, he will shoot over them. If he gets position his jump hook is solid. What does dwight do offensively? that stupid running hook? *@+% outta here with that.

then you want dwight howard. yao is not a real center dwight plays tremendous defense and he scores more than yao and he is a superior reboundercome on man

a real center plays defense and doesnt get soft when nudged down low

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Originally Posted by Nowitness41Dirk

@ anybody acting like Dwight Howard hasn't improved DRASTICALLY on the offensive end over the course of his career so far...

If you don't think he has, you haven't been watching...

You are 100% right Dwight has improved quite a bit offensively but the fact remains he is still not in the same stratosphere as Yao Ming. Yao isthe most effective low post player in todays NBA, and though Dwight has improved his offensive game every year he is still missing one thing that the all timesgreats had and that is great touch around the basket and I'm not sure that is something you can really learn and IMO I don't think it has improved atsince his first year. Shaq, Yao, Duncan, Hakeem, and allegedly Wilt all had it from the jump. Dwight is still way too mechanical and I'm not sure that isfixable. Dwight can be guarded effectively one on one with a real center, you do that to Yao and he will kill you.


Defensively people acting like Yao Ming isn't an excellent defender sure he commits a fatigue foul now and then but other than the gap between him andDwight is not very big. Yao Ming is top 5 in active defensive rating, top 30 all time and has never given up more than 101 points per 100 possessions in hisentire career. Though he doesn't black as many shots his mere presence in the paint alters so many shots.

Like I said, if Yao is healthy I can't see why this is really an argument.

 

[mrtramericanjr]

Yao if healthy,,, yao is the best center in the L

 

[mrtramericanjr]

and btw , when teh games on the line in teh last 2 minutes of the game, i would want teh ball in yaos , hand over d12'

 

[dl2352]

Originally Posted by Nowitness41Dirk

@ anybody acting like Dwight Howard hasn't improved DRASTICALLY on the offensive end over the course of his career so far...

If you don't think he has, you haven't been watching...

As much as he's improved, exactly how good is his offense? He still has no midrange jumper, no go to post move, isn't a great passer, poorft%... I do acknowledge that his post game has improved though but that only shows just how raw he was coming out of high school. Nothing more. His footwork isa lot better than it once was. Other than that though, there's nothing about his offensive game that would scare an opposing defense as long as they keephim out of the paint. When matched against solid center's, Dwight's offensive challenges really show. When matched against Yao, he put up 13ppg in theregular season. When matched with Nene/Birdman, he put up 15ppg (and this is while playing against the Nuggets uptempo pace.) When matched with Perkins, he putup 16.8ppg.

On another note, when looking up those stats, I just realized how terribly lacking the center position is in the NBA

No wonder Portland drafted Greg Oden.

I want to add that I'm a fan of Dwight Howard

I think he's abeast on the defensive end, on the boards, and will dominate lesser centers in the NBA for years to come but I don't think he's the best center.I'm worried about what's going to happen when/if his explosiveness leaves him.

 

[davis]

Originally Posted by CLuTcH 713

Yao.

/thread

by far....why is this even a question?!

 

[guerrilla warfare]

Howard a cornball, But Im taking fool ova yao...

 

[bigmike23]

yao is so much better then howard on the offense end he avg less points then howard did this year.........


the gap between howard and yao on the defense end is HUGE

 

[drock2010]

I would pick Dwight only because he is younger

 

[three6mafia2007]

Dwight by a mile

 

[clutchshooter]

reppin' the motherland.

.

 

[devildog1776]

Originally Posted by JapanAir21

If Yao is healthy?

Hands down the Chinese dude.

 

[N41D]

Originally Posted by Bigmike23

yao is so much better then howard on the offense end he avg less points then howard did this year.........


the gap between howard and yao on the defense end is HUGE

Exactly...

Dwight is miles behind Yao offensively, but he scores more points, shoots a higher percentage, and gets to the free throw line more (Sure, he shoots lowerpercentages, but he's there more often)...

I'm sorry, but this notion that there's some huge disparity between the two offensively is ridiculous... For everything Yao gives you offensively,there's another dimension to the game Dwight brings that Yao can't... And with Dwight, there's still LOADS of potential to be fulfilled... Workingwith Pat Ewing, I'm confident at least some of that is going to be tapped sooner or later...

Give me the younger, high flying, high-upside physical speciman over the older, plodding big man with serious injury risks and a polished offensive game thatcan barely get up and down the court for more than 30 minutes... There is no more upside with Yao Ming... He is what he is at this point...

Like I've said, if you're starting a franchise right now, you're brain dead if you think Yao Ming is the better option...

 

[703flipfiend]

I wish the OP would've clarified if he meant their current conditions or at the start of their careers.

 

[dl2352]

Originally Posted by Bigmike23

yao is so much better then howard on the offense end he avg less points then howard did this year.........


the gap between howard and yao on the defense end is HUGE

Hold on there. Here are the season stats between the two.

Yao averages 33.6 min of play time compared to Howards 35.7 min of play time.

Yao averages 19.7ppg while Howard averages 20.6ppg... about 1 point more.

With that in mind, Yao shoots 54.8% from the field with 13.4 FGA per game while Howard shoots 57.2% off 12.4 FGA per game. So really they're pretty muchthe same in terms of efficiency when talking strictly FGA. While it doesn't matter how one gets their points, watching these players play, we know most ofHoward's points come off dunks and put backs. Basically points due to his athleticism. Points are points though so that's moot.

Here's where things become a bit skewed. Howard goes to the line 10.7 times per game while only making 6.4 of his FT's. Yao only goes to the line 5.7times and makes 4.9 of his FT's. 59.4% compared to 86.6%. So this explains why Howard "scores more" but it shows why Yao is a better offensiveplayer. He's just that much more efficient than Howard.

In terms of defense, Yao averages 9.9 rebs and 1.9 blks. Howard averages 13.8 rebs and 2.9 blks. No one is saying Yao is a better defensive player than Howardbut I think people underestimate Yao's defense. Yao is top 10 in both rebs and blks. The difference isn't THAT wide.