Yao Ming or Dwight Howard? Who would you take starting a franchise.

I'm just going to say it because I'm sure plenty of you are thinking it.

How many of you are Yao supporters strictly because he is Asian and you are Asian?
 
Dwight - younger, more explosive - skill can be taught, freakish athleticism cannot. Obviously when 'starting' a franchise, you are looking a couple ofyears down the line.

Never the less, today I would always go with Yao the last 2 mins of a game. I hope Dwight gets there one day.

Lastly, people saying Dwight has improved - compare his progress to Amare. Amare couldn't shoot a J to save his life his rookie year, and now that *!#+ isautomatic. In the same time that Amare has developed this skill, Dwight has developed far slower offensively. Of course I know Dwight is a superior defender,but it just shows you something about his natural offensive abilities.
 
Originally Posted by Kiddin Like Jason

I'm just going to say it because I'm sure plenty of you are thinking it.

How many of you are Yao supporters strictly because he is Asian and you are Asian?
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And how many of you are Howard supporters strictly because you can't fathom the idea some Chinese dude is the top center in the NBA?

Honestly though, I came to the conclusion that Yao was the best center in the L right now through watching him play, not just because he happens to be Chinese.Yi Jianlian is Chinese and dude is completely underwhelming
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. Idon't even have to mention that other dude on the Lakers (is he even on the team anymore?
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)

It's really a testimony to how naturally gifted Howard is though that he's even considered one of the top centers with no consistent offensive game tospeak of. My god, if he had some semblance of a post game...
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Originally Posted by Nowitness41Dirk

Originally Posted by Bigmike23

yao is so much better then howard on the offense end he avg less points then howard did this year.........


the gap between howard and yao on the defense end is HUGE
Exactly...

Dwight is miles behind Yao offensively, but he scores more points, shoots a higher percentage, and gets to the free throw line more (Sure, he shoots lower percentages, but he's there more often)...

I'm sorry, but this notion that there's some huge disparity between the two offensively is ridiculous... For everything Yao gives you offensively, there's another dimension to the game Dwight brings that Yao can't... And with Dwight, there's still LOADS of potential to be fulfilled... Working with Pat Ewing, I'm confident at least some of that is going to be tapped sooner or later...

Give me the younger, high flying, high-upside physical speciman over the older, plodding big man with serious injury risks and a polished offensive game that can barely get up and down the court for more than 30 minutes... There is no more upside with Yao Ming... He is what he is at this point...

Like I've said, if you're starting a franchise right now, you're brain dead if you think Yao Ming is the better option...
Like I said before, the offense, the pace at which the rockets play, the amount of minutes he plays all have to do with Yao's decrease inoffensive production. The only difference between Yao now and the Yao that scored 25 pts per game on 33 minutes is JVG and Rick Addleman. While Rick is a goodcoach he has never quite figured out how to get the ball to Yao in the post or made some chucking perimeter players realize he Yao is the focal point of theoffense.

But if you look at the underlying numbers, his offensive rating is higher and all his shooting percentages are higher. PER 36 minutes he scores more thanDwight not to mention the intangible things like the amount of double teams and traps Yao sees compared to Dwight.


Defensively I have no idea where people are coming up with this huge none sense.
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They both can't guard quick hybrid centers and when they matched up with traditional big guys Yao is a better man to man defender. Dwighteasilly out rebounds Yao at a rate of 22% but Yao is still top 10 at 17.1%, help side D it's a wash, they are both equally an intimidating paint presenceand surprisingly Yao's career block rate is higher than Dwights, this year is the only year Dwight has posted a higher block rate. So please somebody tellme what rationale they use to decide Dwight is a better defender.
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In terms of who I take as a "franchise" player (a term I hate) Yao who has said he is no longer going to be playing international ball, who ishealthy, in a Greg Popavich, Jaff Van Gundy type system where he is the clear focal point> Dwight Howard.

I think that gets me 27 and 10, something I don't think Dwight will ever do.

Dwight's ceiling is theoretically higher but in the words of Mike Lombardi "Never mistake hope for a plan..."
 
So I assume you think it's sheer coincidence that the decrease in pace, minutes, etc. happened to bring about the first year in 4 years that Yao hasn'tmissed SIGNIFICANT time?

He plays less minutes and they play slower because they have to. It's the only way they can keep him healthy... That's the difference between Yao backthen and Yao now... He can't get up and down the floor at any type of high pace and stay healthy.
 
Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Originally Posted by Nowitness41Dirk

Originally Posted by Bigmike23

yao is so much better then howard on the offense end he avg less points then howard did this year.........


the gap between howard and yao on the defense end is HUGE
Exactly...

Dwight is miles behind Yao offensively, but he scores more points, shoots a higher percentage, and gets to the free throw line more (Sure, he shoots lower percentages, but he's there more often)...

I'm sorry, but this notion that there's some huge disparity between the two offensively is ridiculous... For everything Yao gives you offensively, there's another dimension to the game Dwight brings that Yao can't... And with Dwight, there's still LOADS of potential to be fulfilled... Working with Pat Ewing, I'm confident at least some of that is going to be tapped sooner or later...

Give me the younger, high flying, high-upside physical speciman over the older, plodding big man with serious injury risks and a polished offensive game that can barely get up and down the court for more than 30 minutes... There is no more upside with Yao Ming... He is what he is at this point...

Like I've said, if you're starting a franchise right now, you're brain dead if you think Yao Ming is the better option...
Like I said before, the offense, the pace at which the rockets play, the amount of minutes he plays all have to do with Yao's decrease in offensive production. The only difference between Yao now and the Yao that scored 25 pts per game on 33 minutes is JVG and Rick Addleman. While Rick is a good coach he has never quite figured out how to get the ball to Yao in the post or made some chucking perimeter players realize he Yao is the focal point of the offense.

But if you look at the underlying numbers, his offensive rating is higher and all his shooting percentages are higher. PER 36 minutes he scores more than Dwight not to mention the intangible things like the amount of double teams and traps Yao sees compared to Dwight.


Defensively I have no idea where people are coming up with this huge none sense.
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They both can't guard quick hybrid centers and when they matched up with traditional big guys Yao is a better man to man defender. Dwight easily out rebounds Yao at a rate of 22% but Yao is still top 10 at 17.1%, help side D it's a wash, they are both equally an intimidating paint presence and surprisingly Yao's career block rate is higher than Dwights, this year is the only year Dwight has posted a higher block rate. So please somebody tell me what rationale they use to decide Dwight is a better defender.
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In terms of who I take as a "franchise" player (a term I hate) Yao who has said he is no longer going to be playing international ball, who is healthy, in a Greg Popavich, Jeff Van Gundy type system where he is the clear focal point> Dwight Howard.

I think that gets me 27 and 10, something I don't think Dwight will ever do.

Dwight's ceiling is theoretically higher but in the words of Mike Lombardi "Never mistake hope for a plan..."

After writing all that and having it be bumped off the page. hell no.
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Like I said, I thought he said he was done with international play. If that is the case I feel confident taking Yao.
 
YAO...he can score inside & outside. He can also knock down free throws. Dwight Howard on the other hand have no outside game and when the game is on theline and if he's at the line. I have to pray for him to knock it down. And besides Howard aint a true center he's better off at the PF position.
 
Defensively I have no idea where people are coming up with this huge none sense.
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They both can't guard quick hybrid centers and when they matched up with traditional big guys Yao is a better man to man defender. Dwight easily out rebounds Yao at a rate of 22% but Yao is still top 10 at 17.1%, help side D it's a wash, they are both equally an intimidating paint presence and surprisingly Yao's career block rate is higher than Dwights, this year is the only year Dwight has posted a higher block rate. So please somebody tell me what rationale they use to decide Dwight is a better defender.
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help side D is not a wash like imymind said

You'll never see Nate Robinson or some other guard trying to come from the weakside on Dwight because he's going to put them through the basket along with the ball
and people drive the paint on yao like he ant even there

i have no idea what kind of stats u posted but just watch both play and u cant tell me yao impact on D is just like howards
 
Originally Posted by Bigmike23

Defensively I have no idea where people are coming up with this huge none sense.
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They both can't guard quick hybrid centers and when they matched up with traditional big guys Yao is a better man to man defender. Dwight easily out rebounds Yao at a rate of 22% but Yao is still top 10 at 17.1%, help side D it's a wash, they are both equally an intimidating paint presence and surprisingly Yao's career block rate is higher than Dwights, this year is the only year Dwight has posted a higher block rate. So please somebody tell me what rationale they use to decide Dwight is a better defender.
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help side D is not a wash like imymind said

You'll never see Nate Robinson or some other guard trying to come from the weakside on Dwight because he's going to put them through the basket along with the ball
and people drive the paint on yao like he ant even there

i have no idea what kind of stats u posted but just watch both play and u cant tell me yao impact on D is just like howards

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Be serious son. Ask Kobe if you must.
 
Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Like I said, I thought he said he was done with international play. If that is the case I feel confident taking Yao.
really wow i thought yao would always play for china as long as he was able cause he has so much pride for his country
 
If the question was "WHO WOULD YOU RATHER HAVE PLAYING CENTER ON THE TEAM THAT HAS DWYANE WADE ON IT," then the answer is Dwight Howard no question.But as far as being the face of your franchise, it has to be Yao Ming. You cannot have your best player completely taken out of the game during the closing 5minutes or so. So to answer someone's simple question.....yes free throws have a HELL of a lot to do with the answer. How can ANYONE want a guy to be thefocal point of the team, when you hope he doesnt touch the ball in crunch time?



It happened last night....it happened in the first round....and it will continue to happen until the Magic get a superstar who can take over late in games,when Dwight Howard is rendered useless on the offensive side of the ball.
 
but yao gets posterized more than juss a couple of times word to carmelo, anthony randolph, dahntay jones, manu ginobili, nene, drew gooden, aljefferson, caronbutler, desmond mason, luol deng, and the many others who have posterized yao.
 
I also wanted to applaud mods for letting a discussion like this go. Threads like this can definitely benefit our board.
 
Damn Dwight got straight up postered.
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Either way, they're both big bodies that shy away people from driving into the paint.

The bottomline, like some are saying, give us the dude who you don't have to worry about come crunch time. As opposed the cat and mouse game you have to dowith Dwight, subbing out on offense, subbing in on defense, etc.
 
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