NBA Legacy Thread, Update Resumes

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by Deuce King

CP1708, once again just wanted to let you know that you put ALOT of work into this thread, greatly appreciated.  I just got back into this thread and I will read the write up on Kobe in a few. 

Edit--Okay, I actually read every bit of the Kobe write-up, and for the most part I agree with about 85-90% of if.  I liked how you broke Kobe's career down in 3 parts, which is the way I sometimes look at his career internally. 

Preciate it man.  It's been fun actually.   


I have something for you though.  A little digging I was doing, sort of stumbled upon it. 

We have discussed the 2000 season many times, including this thread. 

But from 2001 and beyond, take a look at your Batman and Robin analogy.

Throughout the Kobe-Shaq era, it was common for the Lakers to run the offense through Shaq early in games. Then when the second half was played out and Shaq became a liability with his poor free throw shooting (remember Hack-a-Shaq?), Kobe was the go-to player as opposing team defenses clamped down.

How can Shaq be the clear-cut leader of the team when his own coach would bench him in fourth quarters because his play would actually hurt his team?

But let’s look at some stats since they tell the story in more detail.

During the 2000-2001 season, look at the averages:

Shaq: 28.7 ppg, 12.7 rpg, 3.7 apg, 2.8 bpg, 57% FG, 51% FT

Kobe: 28.5 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 5.0 apg, 1.7 spg, 46% FG, 85% FT 

Both players made the All-Defensive and All-NBA teams.

Here are the averages for the 2001 playoffs:

Shaq: 30.4 ppg, 15.4 rpg, 3.2 apg, 2.4 bpg, 56% FG, 53% FT

Kobe: 29.4 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 6.1 apg, 1.6 spg, 47% FG, 82% FT

Just like in the regular season, both players’ numbers are very similar. Shaq had a dominating Finals series against the thin frontline of the Philadelphia 76ers and rightly earned the Finals MVP award. 

But the toughest team LA faced en route to the Finals was the San Antonio Spurs—the team with the best record in the NBA. Most media analysts called this the “Real 2001 NBA Finals,

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by Deuce King

CP1708, once again just wanted to let you know that you put ALOT of work into this thread, greatly appreciated.  I just got back into this thread and I will read the write up on Kobe in a few. 

Edit--Okay, I actually read every bit of the Kobe write-up, and for the most part I agree with about 85-90% of if.  I liked how you broke Kobe's career down in 3 parts, which is the way I sometimes look at his career internally. 

Preciate it man.  It's been fun actually.   


I have something for you though.  A little digging I was doing, sort of stumbled upon it. 

We have discussed the 2000 season many times, including this thread. 

But from 2001 and beyond, take a look at your Batman and Robin analogy.

Throughout the Kobe-Shaq era, it was common for the Lakers to run the offense through Shaq early in games. Then when the second half was played out and Shaq became a liability with his poor free throw shooting (remember Hack-a-Shaq?), Kobe was the go-to player as opposing team defenses clamped down.

How can Shaq be the clear-cut leader of the team when his own coach would bench him in fourth quarters because his play would actually hurt his team?

But let’s look at some stats since they tell the story in more detail.

During the 2000-2001 season, look at the averages:

Shaq: 28.7 ppg, 12.7 rpg, 3.7 apg, 2.8 bpg, 57% FG, 51% FT

Kobe: 28.5 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 5.0 apg, 1.7 spg, 46% FG, 85% FT 

Both players made the All-Defensive and All-NBA teams.

Here are the averages for the 2001 playoffs:

Shaq: 30.4 ppg, 15.4 rpg, 3.2 apg, 2.4 bpg, 56% FG, 53% FT

Kobe: 29.4 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 6.1 apg, 1.6 spg, 47% FG, 82% FT

Just like in the regular season, both players’ numbers are very similar. Shaq had a dominating Finals series against the thin frontline of the Philadelphia 76ers and rightly earned the Finals MVP award. 

But the toughest team LA faced en route to the Finals was the San Antonio Spurs—the team with the best record in the NBA. Most media analysts called this the “Real 2001 NBA Finals,

 

[CP1708]

 

 

[CP1708]

 

 

[pmatic]

Let's talk about David Stern's legacy.

 

[pmatic]

Let's talk about David Stern's legacy.

 

[CP1708]

I won't lie ya'll, all this has changed with the lockout goin on.  If this gets bad, and I mean, BAD, we may not see a couple of these guys again. 

  Think about that. 

Shaq already gone.  Nash, Kidd, Dunc, KG, could all be close.  Kobe, Ray and Pierce aren't far behind. 

Missing 25-30 games, eh, no biggie.  Slow up some numbers a little, maybe play them a little rusty in the shortened season due to crazy schedules and what not, but if they miss season(s) now we're stallin out a lot of the work we were expectin. 

So, I figured I would post a couple mixes I could find.  But I don't have anything bookmarked or anything.  So if any of you have any vids saved somewhere of these guys, post them up.  I'll try to find a nice Duncan mix, I wanna see his footwork and fundamentals stuff he's known for.  I imagine there has to be a good one out there.  Ray Allen vids though, those might be tough to come by. 

 

When I opened this up, I honestly didn't worry about the lockout, I hoped and figured it would get resolved and we would play on next year, now, I'm worried.  I wanna see how these elite players wrap up their careers/legacies.  Those of you that are fans of Lebron/Wade, this is their PRIMES we're @#$%^& with. 

  There is no winner in this mess.  What kind of fall out can we expect big picture here? 

 

[CP1708]

I won't lie ya'll, all this has changed with the lockout goin on.  If this gets bad, and I mean, BAD, we may not see a couple of these guys again. 

  Think about that. 

Shaq already gone.  Nash, Kidd, Dunc, KG, could all be close.  Kobe, Ray and Pierce aren't far behind. 

Missing 25-30 games, eh, no biggie.  Slow up some numbers a little, maybe play them a little rusty in the shortened season due to crazy schedules and what not, but if they miss season(s) now we're stallin out a lot of the work we were expectin. 

So, I figured I would post a couple mixes I could find.  But I don't have anything bookmarked or anything.  So if any of you have any vids saved somewhere of these guys, post them up.  I'll try to find a nice Duncan mix, I wanna see his footwork and fundamentals stuff he's known for.  I imagine there has to be a good one out there.  Ray Allen vids though, those might be tough to come by. 

 

When I opened this up, I honestly didn't worry about the lockout, I hoped and figured it would get resolved and we would play on next year, now, I'm worried.  I wanna see how these elite players wrap up their careers/legacies.  Those of you that are fans of Lebron/Wade, this is their PRIMES we're @#$%^& with. 

  There is no winner in this mess.  What kind of fall out can we expect big picture here? 

 

[pmatic]

I've been lazy making mixes this summer.

My favorites that I made last summer (shameless plug):

 

[pmatic]

I've been lazy making mixes this summer.

My favorites that I made last summer (shameless plug):

 

[CP1708]

Big Fella   

 

[CP1708]

Big Fella   

 

[CP1708]

 

[CP1708]

 

[CP1708]

 

[CP1708]

 

[CP1708]

Lebron James and D Wade both add to their resume quite well.  Props to them, moreso Lebron than Wade, of course. 

I will be updating the players all day, but anyone who wants to make their additions on any of their guys, by all means. 

Allen, the floor is yours. 

JA, Dirk
JD, your Celts made a great run  (I damn near feel like addin Rondo to this list, but he's still young)

Nash won't have much to add outside of personal numbers going up a bit

Osh, you have some Lebron you can add I'm sure. 

Xtap, if you come in here, now would be your time to post everything you want to post over these last 9 years. 

 

[kevin cleveland]

What about Norris Cole's legacy, though?

 

[al3xis]

I finally found some free-time to do this.

First I'll go with what I wrote last year:

Most ready and productive HS to NBA player out of the gate in history. Top 2 athletic force of nature I've seen since '93 next to Shaq (for this -- that's how far I'll go back with my own two eyes and living in that moment, not DVD's or ESPN Classic, can watch old game tapes all day but if you didn't experience THAT Time, you miss something.). Best open court player I've seen. Best skip passer I've ever seen. Best passing player 6'8 over I've seen. (again since '93 and this might the most advantageous thing he has at 6'8 260, not just running people over. Think of the flick of the wrist pass to Chalmers cross-court late in Game 2, nobody else makes that as effortlessly.). The flaws: Shooting, post-game, facilitator or scorer? and early on questions about defense. Defense was corrected early, some credit to coaching staffs he was under and also accepting that responsibility. When locked in on that end, he also turns into one of the top 2-3 help defenders as a wing player in the 'rover' role that I've seen next to Pippen. 

The prodigy stuff obviously remains forever. Still the best passer over 6'8 I've seen. Still the best open-court player I've ever seen (I mean, !*++..we all watch them play -how times have the Heat not converted/got fouled on the break since LeBron joined? It's not many) 

Now, onto more important topics. First, the post-game. 

Last year: The post game. Flawed, but exists. Does he have a go to move? No. Does a double team get sent at him almost every damn time? Yes. People need to stop with the he 'doesn't have a post game' and reconfigure that statement to 'doesn't have post moves'. It's the part of being 6'8 260 that gives him one by default. He turns his left shoulder on the block against a small forward and he's right at the rim for a layup. My biggest issue with the lack of one is just simply because he doesn't do it enough. I loved Spoelstra working him off cross-screens this finals, why that didn't or doesn't happen more, I don't know..but I hope it does into the future. He passes as well out of those double teams as anyone. JVG brought up the point one night, why double? Make him make a move to beat you. The moves may not be there, but if a guy is getting doubled consistently and creating good offense, something exists. It's just not done enough.

It was obvious on Christmas Day he was trying to enter the season with a new focus - not new moves, a new focus. As noted, Miami ran those cross screens to get him touches last season and last post-season, problem is it was not frequent enough. I'd put most of that on LeBron and some on Spoelstra. This year was different, at least when it mattered most. He torched OKC out of the post, he dominated the series when needed from the post. I don't think anyone (including myself) thought he would dominate the 2012 NBA Finals from the post at this time last year. The best part is his new-found patience. His footwork is still choppy and he doesn't possess great touch around the rim (never has, good thing for the rest of the world that god didn't give him that, too.). Last year and prior years he was still effective in the post when he went down there because he commanded double teams and could generate good offense for others. Now, he's patient enough to either wait for a double team or he will go score himself. This will add years onto his career offensively. I really believe if he develops this further this summer that defending him will truly be pick your poison. Small forward's can't guard him on the block and it leads to doubles which opens up one of his best two assets - passing. PF's can't stick with him when he faces up, facing up leads to one of his best two assets - getting a head of steam and attacking the rim. One thing, though - LeBron let the post game come and go - does he get bored being down there? Was Spoelstra hiding something until it mattered most? Who knows, but it sure is nice for both to know that's in their back pocket when it's needed now. 

I didn't talk about his defense last year but how good is he? Yes, he'll get beat on occasion guarding scorers, is there anyone who doesn't? Let me say - If this entire post comes across as me being a fanboy, sorry but at least this season he did everything anyone could ask of him.. I can't find very many examples where LeBron is out of position on defense or not giving full effort. It is just rare and his ability to switch between 1 and 4's seamlessly during games or even possessions is why Miami can play so small and still dominate defensively compared to the rest of the league. I feel like if LeBron has 3-4 more peak athletic years that we're going to have re-evaluate where he stands amongst the all-time greats because of his defense. As Bill Simmons put it, watching him in the Finals was like watching a rich-man's Larry Bird. Why? because he's all world defense. He went heads up with Melo, Pierce and KD this spring/summer and he at the very least made them work, if not struggle, while mostly not needing help defenders. 

Shooting, Last year: Shooting flaw is still there. and it's odd. The mechanics of it come and go. He is a streaky shooter, but it's in the mechanics. The backside stays level and upright he probably hits at a 37-38% clip from 3. The legs start to go out, the fade away comes and it probably drops to the 29-30% range, you split the difference and it's right at the 33% mark he's been at. It will be interesting as time goes on, does losing some of his athleticism make it easier to stay centered and in good form as he is confined or does it do the opposite and create more reliance on 'arm shooting' with the rest of the body going different directions?

This year: The post game certainly lessens the importance here. Still streaky and that might just be how it's going to go. At least from the 3 point line. Now, if he could ever work on hitting a consistent 15 foot jumper there really is no way to guard him. Short of resting my legs if I'm LeBron - my priorities are to continue to improve the post game and secondly - 14-18 foot jump shot. I do still think it can be interesting if a loss of explosion results in a more condensed and consistent form as time goes on. 

Last year, facilitator or scorer: Facilitator or scorer? I still don't know. Sometimes you get the best of both worlds, and that's him at his best. Other times he sits back too much. Kobe used and still does do the same 'feeling things out' but at his core everyone knew he was a scorer and at some point in the course of the game you're going to get it. At times, it just never comes for LeBron and he'll just go the other route all the way through (Game 4). But I'll say this, When Mo Williams went down last year in January/February and LeBron moved to PG and the Cavs went 11-0 with wins over LA (2x) Orlando, OKC..during that stretch he went with 31, 7 and 10 . For me, it was the pinnacle for LeBron as a regular season player. When a team has had to have been so overly reliant on him, we've got to see the best he has to offer in mulitiple facets of the game. The issue with this is....when you hit a certain point and against the best competition, it's like running into a brick wall. It's why he had to join another star (or 2). Jordan had experienced this, Kobe did as well. They got their stars, LeBron sought them out. It's a touchy subject. But, Now, playing next to Wade this is his biggest question mark..it trumps the jump shot. How does he achieve greatness at the highest level-- while still appeasing the masses statistically-- when playing next to someone like Wade? A jack of all trades faces an issue when you need to simplify..what is he at his core? Probably both a facilitator and scorer. The criticism about not having spots on the floor where he knows he's comfortable and can go make a play are fair. I think some are on the way (right block, turning over right shoulder and taking that FT line jumper being one & using the cross-screens) it may just take Spoelstra or Riley insisting on these spots for him. 

This year: Did he walk this tightrope beautifully or not in the playoffs? You could pencil him in for 25+ this post-season and still know he would facilitate if that's what things dictated. What we did see when Bosh went out was a shift to essentially playing PF on offense. His assists numbers this year did drop and in the post-season as well. To me, a couple reasons; he adjusted to being a screener with Wade pick and rolls and playing more on the block. I'd actually say he shaded himself to more of a scorer than passer and it benefited Miami since, well, he's just the best option. The 25 points plus in X amount of games was the streak that got attention - the one that didn't: Since the start of the Indiana series he never took less than 19 shots in a game. That was equally important. The Heat were overly reliant this year on LeBron, I feel like Spoelstra would be the first to admit as such. However, when he absolutely needed it (okay maybe not Boston G6, more on that later) he did get major contributions from a supporting cast - to Wade to Bosh to Miller to Battier. That was the difference between playing in Miami and playing in Cleveland. In Cleveland he'd never have someone join up with him in G4 on the road in Indiana like Wade did. You want to win championships, that's needed. I don't care who you are. It just is. In the end, I think he did answer this question and it's the best thing for his career: He is a scorer, he is a passer. He will make the play he feels is the right one. Maybe it was always this way, it just took winning to stop the questioning of it. 

The post-season, last year: The post-season. Some immense highs and lows. One thing that was interesting looking back is that we were 3 minutes away from getting a LeBron/Wade showdown in the ECF's in 2006. Would have added another layer in their storyline/relationship. Instead Cavs can't close Game 6 and drop Game 7. But back to the point... Game 5 in Detroit, then Game 5 in Boston. 45 on the road against Pierce in G7 in 08 then 9 turnovers and Knicks chants in G6 in '10. Maybe the epitome of it all so far is the performances against Chicago and Boston this year followed up by the Finals performance. Clutch or not clutch? Again, there have been a good amount of examples both ways. Maybe what we all are looking for in him is just consistency for better or worse? Defining his legacy would become easier, we just don't have a solid answer yet. 

Well, we got the consistency from Game 1 vs New York to Game 5 vs OKC. We can say LeBron's more of a very good to great playoff performer than a bad one now, right? (the numbers and W's/L's now say yes) We know the lows: G5 at home in '10. The 2011 Finals are the two biggest sore spots and can't be erased. But damn it if he didn't do his best to try to overshadow them with great performances. He ended an era of Boston Celtic basketball, flat out. Game 6, ready to advance behind that crowd. Bosh is rusty, Wade is more off than on, KG looks 5 years younger and Rondo is dominating. Only one man stood in the way. And stood he did. Like a $@%**** brick wall. This may have been the start of something. At some point this playoffs it felt like LeBron got in some game situations and it felt like he was not going to lose, didn't it? I'm not saying it never felt like Miami wasn't going to lose. But on some nights, LeBron was not. It was, "Get on my back, I got this - we're fine." stretch of basketball he put together and somewhere in G3 against OKC to me it was over. He wasn't losing, and there was nothing to be done about it. Was he really a different guy with a different mind-set? Who knows. Only he does. All I know is I felt he hit a new point in his career. 

This is a new inclusion to this write up this year:

The man is a physical freak. I honest to god believe that Miami asked as much of him this season as any Cav team did in his 7 years in Cleveland. It just doesn't appear that way because Cleveland lost and Miami won. But, the minutes, the defensive assignments - and the fact he was in the midst of a I-better-$@%****-win-at-all-costs-season. He never stopped, he kept coming and coming. If Boston was 5 years younger, Miami doesn't win that series. But they aren't and LeBron could stay on the court and take advantage of their 2nd unit (really, he had to). Going back to the job he does on defense - he does while most nights taking on the best perimeter player while operating the Heat offense on the other side of the ball. It's a lot to ask. Is he going to run out sooner than expected? A shortened season with a late finish now plus Olympics? The guy is going to be playing into late May/likely June for a while now. Is he human? Guess we'll find out in 4-5 years. 

Last year:

ii. The Decision.

A) The cop-out. I said the night it happened, he can't be Jordan (I never thought he could anyway, but this sealed it). There was and still a sense of him limiting his own ceiling. The only way that goes away is if he plays every ECF and Finals to the level he was against Boston & Chicago. It's still the fact that it is Miami and that is Wade's city. If he gets Dwyane to follow him to Cleveland or team up in NY, does the same feeling of Pippen/Robin exist? Likely to an extent from some but not like this..which leads to..

B) The Double-Standard. And this is more geared towards Wade. The man who won 4 playoff games in 4 years and people were then ready to anoint with 2 more wins this week. Wade plays like crap against the best regular season win team and LeBron plays great -- Heat win in 5. LeBron plays like crap, Wade plays great vs Dallas-- Heat lose in 6. Wade is in a great situation. All credit/no blame position. But the bottom line, LeBron has to be good to great for Miami to win it all. He is the better player, in the Finals, He was not. 'Robin' will not win champions for the Heat. And he has to have those great performances to validate a title in a lot of peoples minds. Fair or unfair. 

C) The aftermath. A year removed, year one is in the books. Nothing but a championship every year is a huge failure given the situation he and Wade/Bosh decided on. Where it goes from here? Anyone's guess. I don't believe the limit on his greatness or legacy is as severe as we thought last July. Things are decided on the court and everything was being erased in those 2 Eastern series and then it got derailed quickly. His legacy can be enhanced or damaged either way. Being on Miami just crossed off the GOAT discussion with LeBron. 

This year: 

A) It's still an eyesore for LeBron's career. Always will be. Did he really limit his ceiling? I guess the answer would still be yes, but how much? He was the most dominant player on a NBA title team, I mean there was no question left about whose team that was. He did play that elite level to remove all doubt. I think this changed maybe significantly this year and another year of the same won't make the Decision an after thought, but it won't be the first thing you think of when you think of LeBron, will it? 

B) Still true. 

C) I still think so on both accounts. Titles or bust and the on the court stuff will always prevail. I just don't think that cap on his 'legacy' is screwed on as tight as the reaction to "....to South Beach." led us all to think. 

Can he be the GOAT? No, I don't think so. I've looked at the numbers, I've watched the games - Michael Jordan was unreal. LeBron needed an earlier start on the winning to make a legit case for it, I think. I will say this, I believe the media and access to information is resulting in more knowledgeable people with a platform that side more with the thinking of Mark Cuban than Skip Bayless (substance matters, being a fake shrink does not).

Leading to this:

Social Media: Last year. This is not exclusive to LeBron, but it does play into his legacy. As much as any athlete to date. I genuinely feel sorry for the next transcendent NBA player who even has a hint of arrogance. You have to have the contrived answers that Durant and Rose offer now. Have to. We enjoy arrogance, but not until you win. Kobe has said some off the wall +%%* to reporters the past year or two, but it's humorous and almost looked at in a playful manner at this point. That's just Kobe now. The competitor, not the dickhead. Because he won. Could you imagine the stuff that he and Iverson got into 7-8 years ago coming to light now with twitter and how instant info and access is available? Heck, we were one dumb reporter away from that Rasard Lewis stuff actually becoming a story. But, basically..here is a guy who grew up bouncing around homes in a single parent home with a part-time mother who emerged in the spot light at 16 and not once has encountered off court trouble. And this is who we turn into a villain? Arrogance, lack of humility, poor choices of words will be damning to any athlete from here on out. It has happened to LeBron and I'm not sure how he salvages his image. Can't turn into the guy who says all the right things, can't ride the fence and can't go all out dark side. There really is only one way -- to win. But for anyone to reach or attain GOAT status they are going to have to be so far removed from this current era it's crazy to think about. You still have huge MJ fans, you have huge Kobe fans..you have past players/coaches who speak on things to either prop up or tear down. It'd have to take another 50 years before all those people wash away before we can put another player on that pedestal. But at that point, who knows how the media handles a player like that? 

And Do not get me wrong, he is responsible here for the heights it can and has reached. Stay off twitter. Nobody should know the names of the people in your entourage. They're your entourage. We shouldn't know your mom on a first name basis. It's not his fault entirely, but at some point you just have to say...look here is a check every month..let me handle my business with people who are actually educated and trained in these areas...and I'll see you in July. 

This year: LeBron still has an image to repair. He could not be a defiant douche this week after winning - or at any point this year. I think he carried himself with a good amount of humility (given where he was 18 months ago) and said the right things but people will still dislike him. That's life, everyone has an opinion and now everyone has a platform to tell you what it is. But back to people with information: there are a lot of them in a lot of high places. I can't tell you how many times I've gone on ESPN or Grantland or SI or wherever and wonder when ______ was hired or thinking 'wow, that's a great article.' from someone I am familiar with. We also now have things like Synergy Sports and places like NBA Playbook. Could the pendulum of social media actually swing in LeBron's favor as we leave the Jordan era and more and more people embrace LeBron the basketball player? The praise for his performance this year is effusive and when the shock jocks (Bayless, Rome, Doyel) are left with nothing, that's where we are. 

I think LeBron was himself this year and when he says that, I believe him. I thought his celebration was fitting. He didn't cry nor did he tell anyone to $!#% off. He danced and he smiled. I thought it was genuine, since that's always been who he is. 

I don't know if he shut people off this season or playoffs, we at least know we didn't hear about mom or his friends cooking up some elaborate schemes this year. We do know that he didn't watch TV, post on twitter, etc. He read books, watched DVD's - whatever works. I don't care about that but it does seems he's at peace with where he is now and where he's headed on and off the court. 

Last year: 

iv. He's still 26.

So, I can't make anywhere near a final conclusion on what he is. I would say he is probably already on the back end of the Top 20 players of all time. But the clock is ticking and the hour glass got flipped upside down when they hit the floor this year. This was, to me, the first team he was on that was capable of winning a championship and he and his team failed. No way around it. There is (plenty of) time left, he and his teammates will need health..and maybe they get Pat Riley? But he has to win, you at least have to knock down that barrier before we start talking about Finals MVP's and who is what on a team. That stuff becomes secondary and subjective, the titles are there forever. There are still areas of his game to work on but probably as much as anything there is some soul-searching to do this summer, even more than last. Last year it was figuring out what was the best situation (debatable choice legacy wise, likely the correct choice basketball wise) Now, He has to figure: What works, when it works and when it's needed. The all time greats a) recognize it. b) execute it. 

From 2008-2010 as a Cav we saw his absolute peak as an individual both athletically and as a basketball player and that greatness got him 2 MVP's. The team greatness? That's still in front of him to go after.

I think I take back that last part. I saw his absolute peak this post-season and I was glad I could witness it. He figured out what works, when it works and when it's needed. He recognized it, he executed it. The individual greatness and team greatness finally coincided. 

Lastly, sometimes when guys win the first championship it feels like they're going to a party. First they pay their cover charge (Charles Barkely and Karl Malone are the two bitter bouncers at the door) and poke their head in to see if they recognize anyone to go talk to and hope they fit in. They hope they actually do belong. Some stick, other pass out drunk on the yard and forget to wake up (Dirk?) or get in a fight they lose (Walton). But, Magic and Larry are playing each other on the beer pong table for hours. Oscar Robertson is bad mouthing everyone else to the girls he's talking to. MJ is in a VIP room with Kobe walking past trying to get a look out of the corner of his eye. Russell, Shaq, Kareem and Hakeem are arguing amongst each other. Wilt is..do I really have to tell you where Wilt is? 

LeBron was an hour late but came barreling in, carrying a keg over his head. As if to say, 'Sorry I was late, but the party is here.' Personally, I hope it doesn't end anytime soon. 

 

[CP1708]

Allen, that +#*% is outstanding. 

One problem.......best passer over 6'8? 

Uh, was Magic 6'7? 

  Please tell me you aren't doing this to me.  Or do you mean guys you have seen live?  That, I can handle.  Cuz Magic pretty much invented passing. 

 

[al3xis]

Yeah, Not putting him ahead of Magic -

in my original post last year, I said I was only comparing to players I witnessed live (watching their careers unfold) so starting in '93 and beyond. I've watched the old tapes and all but since I didn't see their career lives, that's what I wanted to base those things on for myself personally.

 

[CP1708]

Ok that makes perfect sense.  I would agree too. 

I copied this one into the OP, but you know Yuku, sometimes it shows, sometimes it don't, so I dunno right now. 

  I was scared to death editing that Yuku would wipe that slate clean.  

JA, are you EVER going to write up Dirk?   You typed 96,000 words on Oz, but you can't type Dirk up for me? 

 

[mben32]

best thread on NT. Forgot all about this @@*!. 

Only place you can see well written, rational paragraphs about NBA stars. w/o the fake Skip Bayless' chiming in. 

appreciated. 

 

[university of nike]

... is what I've been waiting years for. Rings are nice, MVPs are nice, stats are nice - but LeBron finally went into THAT zone.

 

[T0INE]

Originally Posted by University of Nike

... is what I've been waiting years for. Rings are nice, MVPs are nice, stats are nice - but LeBron finally went into THAT zone.

His performance in Game 6 of the ECF was one for the ages.

I think that was the best game of LeBron's career including what he did in this years Finals.

On the road, facing elimination, against a team he's had little success against, pressure on his team and him in particular at a hundred thousand trillion, everyone chomping at the bit to rake him over the coals again for another playoff failure and he absolutely dominated.

As impressive as his stats were, like you alluded to it was his demeanor and the stoic look he had on his face throughout the game that stood out to me. There were no emotions from him whether it be him smiling or laughing after a dunk, or *****ing to the refs about a missed call.

Straight stone cold assassin.

Great write up BTW allen.