Real Talk: What are Your Views of Homosexuality

[alchemiss]

Originally Posted by ExtRaOrDinaRy SwAg

I personally don't agree with homosexuality but it don't really affect me. I do think its unfair that they are treated any different than other human being in terms of the marriage thing and their insurance rights and stuff like that. I just can't stand the flamboyant ones or over the top lesbians, can't nobody tell me they are BORN like that. It's all an ACT in my opinion.

That stuff is really confusing to me as well. I don't know if I think some people can be born feeling like a different sex or not. Forexample, this girl I went to high school with... she dated all the "straight" girls who would always say "I'm not gay, I just really likeKatie".. she looked like a female, long hair, pretty.. but always acted extremely masculine. Now her name is "Isaiah" and she has a goatee andhad chest surgery. I don't get how people can be so into being a lesbian then be a straight man.. but I probably won't ever get it because I don'tgo through that.

Even in the lesbian community there's girls who hate on each other because of how they dress.. For example- I'm not super feminine like wearing heelsall the time and loads of make up- but I'm in no way like the tomboy ones.. In fact- most the really tom boy ones act funny around me because I'm not"dude" enough for them and they don't wanna f me because I'm not in heels n skirts. I have my own style that doesn't fit into lesbianstereotypes and some people hate on me just because of that.

 

[ericberry14]

I have a question for all you religious people that say that being gay is a conscious choice. Then how do you explain the fact that there are cases ofhomosexuality in animals also. Do animals also make the choice to be homosexual. Bit wouldn't that mean that animals have free will. But according to yourbible only man was given free will.

How would you religious folk answer that?

 

[im a helion]

I don't get down with homosexuality, but I honestly don't care. I'm just mad that I gotta compete with mylesbian friends for females.

 

[airwing03]

im not gay, or a gay hater, so im not explaining ishh

 

[alchemiss]

Originally Posted by ericberry14

I have a question for all you religious people that say that being gay is a conscious choice. Then how do you explain the fact that there are cases of homosexuality in animals also. Do animals also make the choice to be homosexual. Bit wouldn't that mean that animals have free will. But according to your bible only man was given free will.

How would you religious folk answer that?

They will just make some stupid remark and put the "

" face because apparently animals are really runny.. Trust me I've already tried to give people facts but they just laugh at it becausethey're so scared and ignorant.

 

[superantigen]

Originally Posted by ericberry14

I have a question for all you religious people that say that being gay is a conscious choice. Then how do you explain the fact that there are cases of homosexuality in animals also. Do animals also make the choice to be homosexual. Bit wouldn't that mean that animals have free will. But according to your bible only man was given free will.

How would you religious folk answer that?

1. I am christian and i certainly don't think being gay is a conscious choice. With that said, it is also definitely not a biologicallydetermined.

2. Give me example of these so called homosexual animals you referring to. When you do, then i'll address the rest of your question...

 

[xbiker47]

im not for homosexuality but it doesnt really affect me

 

[alchemiss]

Originally Posted by SuperAntigen

Originally Posted by ericberry14

I have a question for all you religious people that say that being gay is a conscious choice. Then how do you explain the fact that there are cases of homosexuality in animals also. Do animals also make the choice to be homosexual. Bit wouldn't that mean that animals have free will. But according to your bible only man was given free will.

How would you religious folk answer that?

1. I am christian and i certainly don't think being gay is a conscious choice. With that said, it is also definitely not a biologically determined.

2. Give me example of these so called homosexual animals you referring to. When you do, then i'll address the rest of your question...

Study at Oregon Health and Science University.. one of the best science and research facilities in the nation:

http://www.scienceblog.com/cms/node/2421

 

[biggie62]

Let them live and give them the same rights us heterosexuals have. They are no different than us except their sexual preference. The animal kingdom has gayanimals. There are plenty of examples. The gay penguin post he had here on this site is a classic example but there are many more. I'm more of a scientistso I don't accept the whole choice thing that religious people use as their foundation for bashing homosexuals.

My approach is, if they don't bother me, why should I bother them.

 

[air messiah]

Science, the theories, the discoveries are ever changing.

There is so much we don't know about the world and ourselves.

Homosexuality has existed since the beginning of recorded history.

There are psychological and genetic anomalies that exist through out nature, I believe homosexuality transgender people are some of them.

People make it seem like, they decide to be gay, why would someone decide to choose to be a oppressed, sometimes hated, possibly be shunned from your familyand friends consciously?

People try to point to the Bible to justify their arguments, But imagine those writers at that time, they didn't even know the world was round, sacrificedanimals to appease God, there still wasn't enough words in their languages to describe certain things, and you want to still enforce rules and beliefs fromthat time, I can't stand all of this religious fundamentalism.

 

[im a helion]

I really hate how these threads almost always turn into a collective soapbox for how religion ruined the world.

Don't get me wrong, I hate religion too, but damn...religion sucks...we get it.

 

[36Hypno]

To answer the question posted about religious people. Let me not answer it from a purely impartial zone. I myself have the urge to steal all the time. I meanits real serious. If I walk by a car with the windows down best believe I am scoping. But I resist. Pedophiles have the urge to engage in sexual acts withchildren. These are acts that we know are incorrect but RESTRAINT is the answer. If there was no human restraint there would be chaos everywhere. Homosexualityhas become the only one of the immoral sexual acts to try and ask for its acceptance because it doesn't harm anyone. Rapists and pedophiles after they arecaught and released are asked to resist their urges. Why not the homosexual? Both are wrong and unnatural its just that the one can be hidden. You can'tmask the rape or the molestation. That goes along with people who have sex with animals. I think homosexuals should have the rights granted to all human beingsbut not the marraige TITLE. I think that will lead to a whole other future issue......

 

[superantigen]

Originally Posted by Alchemiss

Originally Posted by SuperAntigen

Originally Posted by ericberry14

I have a question for all you religious people that say that being gay is a conscious choice. Then how do you explain the fact that there are cases of homosexuality in animals also. Do animals also make the choice to be homosexual. Bit wouldn't that mean that animals have free will. But according to your bible only man was given free will.

How would you religious folk answer that?

1. I am christian and i certainly don't think being gay is a conscious choice. With that said, it is also definitely not a biologically determined.

2. Give me example of these so called homosexual animals you referring to. When you do, then i'll address the rest of your question...

Study at Oregon Health and Science University.. one of the best science and research facilities in the nation:

http://www.scienceblog.com/cms/node/2421http://www.scienceblog.com/cms/node/2421

Okkkkk...what you gave me is one on-going experimental "data" from a very controlled and unnatural setting. This hardly supports thenotion that homosexuality is indeed genetically based in a "normal" natural environment. What i asked for is natural proof in the wild ofhomosexuality...

Go ahead...i'll wait...

 

[air messiah]

Originally Posted by SuperAntigen

Originally Posted by Alchemiss

Originally Posted by SuperAntigen

Originally Posted by ericberry14

I have a question for all you religious people that say that being gay is a conscious choice. Then how do you explain the fact that there are cases of homosexuality in animals also. Do animals also make the choice to be homosexual. Bit wouldn't that mean that animals have free will. But according to your bible only man was given free will.

How would you religious folk answer that?

1. I am christian and i certainly don't think being gay is a conscious choice. With that said, it is also definitely not a biologically determined.

2. Give me example of these so called homosexual animals you referring to. When you do, then i'll address the rest of your question...

Study at Oregon Health and Science University.. one of the best science and research facilities in the nation:

http://www.scienceblog.com/cms/node/2421http://www.scienceblog.com/cms/node/2421http://www.scienceblog.com/cms/node/2421

Okkkkk...what you gave me is one on-going experimental "data" from a very controlled and unnatural setting. This hardly supports the notion that homosexuality is indeed genetically based in a "normal" natural environment. What i asked for is natural proof in the wild of homosexuality...

Go ahead...i'll wait...

Look up the Bonobo or called the Pygmy Chimpanzee, they do a whole bunch of gay things in their natural settings.

 

[retrojtino]

I'm not gay nor against gays. Like Keith Olbermann said, it's really none of anybody's business. That's the truest way anybody could put it. Atthe end of the day, one's sexual preference could matter less to me. And that's the same mentality I expect from them (homosexuals). I personallydon't have any gay friends but it's not something unthought of. Male or female. Doesn't matter to me. I'd only become defensive if a gay malewas tryin' to come on to me. And not defensive like, "Yo, I'm bout to f*** you up."

People are just too close-minded in my opinion. And it's not just about homosexuals, it's about society in general. Some people feel like theycan't be around an unattractive person, or an overweight person. They feel like they can't hang wit dude because he wears Shaqs rather than Nikes. Orthey can't hang wit shorty cuz her hair is always a mess. When all that really matters is ones character. If there was an easier way to distinguish thereal from the fake, or the trustworthy from the dishonest and disloyal, I bet you the crowd people hang around would look way more colorful and diverse. Andthese deceitful people earning "prosperity" by taking from others, lieing, and so on would find themselves very lonely individuals. That's why Idon't even judge people anymore. I don't stare at a person with mental complications nor do I frown upon a gay man or woman. Sure I might crack a jokeat somebody here on NT, but it's all fun and games here. All I'm saying is, what's really important about a person is what's within.

 

[marleysprotege]

Originally Posted by Alchemiss

Originally Posted by MarleysProtege

we are all animals ... our main purpose is to make more of our own species ... if youre gay you cant do that ... case closed

Okay? How many people who aren't gay don't want kids, don't have kids, and can't have kids?

if we were meant to be with the same sex we would be ableto reproduce asexually ... case closed

 

[superantigen]

Originally Posted by Air Messiah

Originally Posted by SuperAntigen

Originally Posted by Alchemiss

Originally Posted by SuperAntigen

Originally Posted by ericberry14

I have a question for all you religious people that say that being gay is a conscious choice. Then how do you explain the fact that there are cases of homosexuality in animals also. Do animals also make the choice to be homosexual. Bit wouldn't that mean that animals have free will. But according to your bible only man was given free will.

How would you religious folk answer that?

1. I am christian and i certainly don't think being gay is a conscious choice. With that said, it is also definitely not a biologically determined.

2. Give me example of these so called homosexual animals you referring to. When you do, then i'll address the rest of your question...

Study at Oregon Health and Science University.. one of the best science and research facilities in the nation:

http://www.scienceblog.com/cms/node/2421http://www.scienceblog.com/cms/node/2421http://www.scienceblog.com/cms/node/2421http://www.scienceblog.com/cms/node/2421

Okkkkk...what you gave me is one on-going experimental "data" from a very controlled and unnatural setting. This hardly supports the notion that homosexuality is indeed genetically based in a "normal" natural environment. What i asked for is natural proof in the wild of homosexuality...

Go ahead...i'll wait...

Look up the Bonobo or called the Pygmy Chimpanzee, they do a whole bunch of gay things in their natural settings.

Ohhh good. I'm glad you brought up the bonobo monkeys and the Chimpanzee's...

I like how people break human behavior down to animal instinct when it's convenient for their argument(this case)....but refute it when it isn't(gay behavior)
Well it's not a matter of convenience--when one considers that these are accepted facts, scrutinized and accepted by the scientific community. Honestly, it's easy to see the underlying workings of nature when one investigates the heterosexual relationship between a male and a female because, dare i say, it's BIOLOGICALLY natural. Nature shaped the male organism and a female organism in such a way so as to allow for easy creation of offspring. How do i know this--i took a look outside and saw a BOY squirrel chasing a GIRL squirrel. I also saw a LION, mounting a LIONESS. I saw a lot of BOY animals, tryna sex GIRL animals. This in the Biologically NATURAL way of things as designed by Natural Selection.

Now even though i have no qualms with the GLBT community--you cannot sit there and act like homosexuality is a Biologically natural phenomena. Granted, homosexuality has been seen in a few animal groups belonging to the primates (but even that is heavily disputed), its in the minority--greatly overshadowed by heterosexuality. Now why would this be the case--well Nature would've made a very big boo-boo if "gay" behavior were a natural "animal instinct" considering BOY/GIRL animals mating with BOY/GIRL animals would result in "genes not being passed on". Homosexuality is prevalent in human society because we developed CULTURE--and it is this very same culture that frees us from Darwin's hostile forces. You should know that, withing the few primate groups where homosexual activity has been spotted--scientists are also noticing what seems to be the early stages of the development of culture. Simply stated, you can break (heterosexual) human behavior down to animal instinct in such a case like this because the dynamic between male and females is natural. From a biological standpoint, with natural selection/nature as the driving force, homosexuality is a very novel and somewhat bewildering dynamic and as such, basic animal instincts do not easily apply. That's something any smart person has to agree with.

So the quoted passage (red and yellow) is my response to something Dirty stated a while back (in the purple). As you can see, I'm very away ofthe presence of homosexual activity in the natural animal world (specifically with respect to chimps)...

But now just read the rest and you'll see what i am getting at...

Here's the link to the page if you're interested in reading our discussion: http://niketalk.com/topic/127880?page=11

 

[alchemiss]

Originally Posted by MarleysProtege

Originally Posted by Alchemiss

Originally Posted by MarleysProtege

we are all animals ... our main purpose is to make more of our own species ... if youre gay you cant do that ... case closed

Okay? How many people who aren't gay don't want kids, don't have kids, and can't have kids?

if we were meant to be with the same sex we would be ableto reproduce asexually ... case closed

So if you can't have kids or don't want to have kids.....?

Not really sure the point you're trying to make here. According to you, infertile people and gays are in the same category.

 

[kanyewestjayz4life]

1. I'm in the sciences so believe me when i say this--"homosexuality is not biological or innate". Such a "hypothesis" (and yes, that's what it is) is very wrong or at the very least, quite misleading. I espouse this point of view simply because if homosexuality were indeed a consequence of genetically innate processes, everything we know about natural selection--with emphasis on sexual selection--and evolution would have to be re-evaluated.

Think about it this way. We have males and we have females. Our species can only procreate, naturally, when males copulate with females. The male penis and the female vagina were evolutionary crafted for each other to maximize our ability to procreate and consequently pass on our genes. This is just mother nature doing her thing--it's just how things are.

What it all comes down to, with every species/organism on this planet, is passing your genes on to the next generation--that's "survival". This is the innate goal of every species. This "survival" can only be accomplished through (male x female) interaction/copulation. This is the biologically natural way of things. Two or more mutually exclusive males, without female sexual interaction, cannot pass on their genes to the next generation. It's biological impossible. This is why nature has majorly selected for heterosexual interactions, relative to homosexual interaction.

Furthermore, if homosexuality were in fact biologically innate, then there would be a natural tendency for all of us--every single last one of us--to "act" homosexual or rather, there would be a greater disposition for us to act homosexual.

I think the thing you're failing to understand is that homosexuality is not a normal tendency. It's not natural. Think about all the birthconditions that people are born with that do not lead to survival. Being infertile, birth defects, cancer (actually are ppl ever born with it?), and so muchmore. No one is making the claim that homosexuality is biological in order to help survival.

I look at homosexuality this way too. A birth defect, I just don't like saying that because people will use it as another way to hate on homosexualities.It's pretty damn obvious that it's not normal, I don't know why others keep saying this. We get it, a penis goes into a vagina, that'swhat's natural. Not all of us are born with the luxury of being perfect working human beings.

Are you gonna go telling someone born without arms they aren't normal so they dont' deserve as good of a life as they can get?

2. Here is the problem with most scientific experiment/studies. If you're out looking to find proof for X, Y, Z--chances are you'll find it because you're scientifically blind. These studies were geared toward finding PROOF that homosexuality is indeed innate. Think about it. These researchers were hoping to find PROOF and EVIDENCE to VALIDATE their hypothesis' so from the get-go, they were scientifically biased.
This is what absolutely drives me NUTS about people's perception of research. Have you ever sent something for approval in an APA magazine.Trust me, there is almost no way an article will pass review for an APA journal if it's biased. The guidelines and peer review is crazy tough. Evensubmitting a review that can be found of biases is enough to ruin your career as a researcher and have you blackballed. An APA approved journal won't havebiased data. Only the reporting of it can be biased. And all the evidence I got was taken straight from articles found in an APA approved journal.

It really grinds my gears that people just assume research is biased. Real research controls for biases in sooooo many ways. Just writing an APA paper and onewill realize how much work is put into it to make sure it's free from bias.

I know there are cases where research is bias (depending on who's putting up money for the research) but just using that reason to dispute all results thatMANY difference sources find is beyond me.

I listed my sources and a quick author and keyword (homosexuality)search in an APA database will bring them up. I didn't get my sources from Yahoo or MSN,it's from legit journals.

Someone pointed out that there were holes in this argument. Please point them out because I fail to see them. I'm black and I am empathetic to the difficulties homosexual couples are facing but I think it is very irresponsible to parallel their struggles with past and present Black struggles.
Being homosexual and being black are compared because both were disenfranchised (sp?). There's nothing more to get about it. Why are blackfolks so damn touchy about anything being compared to slavery. We get it, slavery was worst than anything we could imagine.

The difference between attitudes towards blacks and attitudes towards +@*%+ now is that we have laws and government that prevent most of the terrible stufffrom happening. The mindset and discrimination is the same. That's what people compare.

No one is trying to make light of slavery and no comparision will make people think less of slavery. It's just a fact that both blacks and +%%$ werediscriminated and probably in the future we'll look back and realize that was wrong, same thing we did with slavery.

I'm Black btw.

What I don't get is when people say that your born with it... If you're born gay than why are some people bisexuals? Another thing... I have a? For all those heterosexuals that come on here trying to stick up for gay people and @%!# on people who don't agree with homosexuality... If you are about to have a baby right now and you can choose if you want your baby to be gay or not, which would you choose? Please don't give me the *%*%%#%+ answer," I'd love my child either way," because that's not what I'm asking."

Look at it this way. Imagine being born a gay male. All your life you're being conditioned into thinking you like women. Everybody wants youto like women. You want to conform and like women but you damn sure like men. There comes the confusion. As my gay friend said, bi is just a speedbump on theroute to homosexuality. A lot of people I know who were "bi" eventually just come out and say they're just gay.

I'm pulling this out of my *@! but I bet bisexuals represent less than 5% of all homosexuals. We're making such a big deal out of such a smallpercentage of homosexuals. And i'm sure a large number of those can be explained as just sexual perversion not homosexuality.

I would damn sure want my baby to be heterosexual. I don't know what this has to do with anything. But if my baby washomosexual I damn sure wouldn't be naive enough to try and change him.

By the way SuperAntigen, I love the orginization of your response. And I appreciate your insight.

 

[dunks87]

let them do them. if they want to say or prove they were born that way go ahead. at the end of the day it's their life and i got too much going on in myown to sit around and think about how other people choose to live theirs.

 

[marleysprotege]

Originally Posted by Alchemiss

Originally Posted by MarleysProtege

Originally Posted by Alchemiss

Originally Posted by MarleysProtege

we are all animals ... our main purpose is to make more of our own species ... if youre gay you cant do that ... case closed

Okay? How many people who aren't gay don't want kids, don't have kids, and can't have kids?

if we were meant to be with the same sex we would be ableto reproduce asexually ... case closed

So if you can't have kids or don't want to have kids.....?

Not really sure the point you're trying to make here. According to you, infertile people and gays are in the same category.

what the !%%+ is so hard to understand? ... get on the brain transplant list if you dont understand after this ... AS ALWAYS, there are exceptions to the rulewhere some people are created without the ability to reproduce, THAT GOES FOR ALL SPECIES ... but OUR SPECIES NEEDS BOTH MALE AND FEMALE TO REPRODUCE ... IF WEWERE SUPPOSED TO BE WITH THE SAME SEX, THIS WOULDNT BE THE CASE ...

where did i say infertile people and gays are in the same category ... o wait i didnt, you just have the comprehension skills of one of them chimps in thestudy up there ... and again i say ... IF WE WERE SUPPOSED TO BE WITH THE SAME SEX, WE WOULD BE ABLE TO REPRODUCE ASEXUALLY, because the goal of every speciesis to sustain itself throughout time ...

 

[prurientsole]

With all of the innate psychological differences between individuals, it's absolutely impossible for someone to be wired differently with respect to theirsexual orientation?

Sure, that makes perfect sense.

Many people who believe that being gay is something that's chosen or learned never consider the other side of the coin, that people who are born withhomosexual tendencies have been taught, conditioned, even pressured, into being straight in order to appear "normal".

As if the litany of marriages that have been ruined by homosexual affairs shouldn't have made that idea blatantly obvious by now...

Other than that, I'ma assume that the previous 8 pages contain the same ignorance and close-mindedness that typically infect threads of this nature, soI'll stay out of all that rubbish.

 

[kicksgetmehigh]

majority of my family members would say "Mi nuh frien wit no batty mon"

 

[alchemiss]

Originally Posted by MarleysProtege

Originally Posted by Alchemiss

Originally Posted by MarleysProtege

Originally Posted by Alchemiss

Originally Posted by MarleysProtege

we are all animals ... our main purpose is to make more of our own species ... if youre gay you cant do that ... case closed

Okay? How many people who aren't gay don't want kids, don't have kids, and can't have kids?

if we were meant to be with the same sex we would be ableto reproduce asexually ... case closed

So if you can't have kids or don't want to have kids.....?

Not really sure the point you're trying to make here. According to you, infertile people and gays are in the same category.

what the !%%+ is so hard to understand? ... get on the brain transplant list if you dont understand after this ... AS ALWAYS, there are exceptions to the rule where some people are created without the ability to reproduce, THAT GOES FOR ALL SPECIES ... but OUR SPECIES NEEDS BOTH MALE AND FEMALE TO REPRODUCE ... IF WE WERE SUPPOSED TO BE WITH THE SAME SEX, THIS WOULDNT BE THE CASE ...

where did i say infertile people and gays are in the same category ... o wait i didnt, you just have the comprehension skills of one of them chimps in the study up there ... and again i say ... IF WE WERE SUPPOSED TO BE WITH THE SAME SEX, WE WOULD BE ABLE TO REPRODUCE ASEXUALLY, because the goal of every species is to sustain itself throughout time ...

Why are you getting so upset? Calm down. My point is, to be human you don't have to reproduce. Why would infertile creatures be created inthe first place? Are you saying you don't like gay people because they go outside of what our duties of humans are? That is what I'm asking you- whatyour point is. And if that is in fact your point then you shouldn't like infertile people or people who don't want kids either. We all know we aresupposed to reproduce... But there are infertile people, those who don't want to have kids, and gays... Althoughgays can reproduce, just not with one another... unless its a gay male and a gay female

 

[DCAllAfrican]

I am against it. Completely. And I hate that it is here to stay