Would rape even exist if sex wasn't a taboo in society?

[nako xl]

Originally Posted by acidicality

rape is about control...how do u explain a woman raping a man then? (which does happen)

what...? alternating the two genders doesnt change anything... what are you asking?

and i defy you to cite one case of 1st degree rape of a man by a woman in the past 50 years.

(i know a couple, but they're rare.)

 

[nako xl]

that's why they're rare.

there's several reported date rape cases, but they're nigh impossible to convict on.

until recently (within the past 50+ years) rape in the US and UK was only a crime against women. they retooled the laws to take away the gender bias, but itsstill almost impossible to convict a woman of raping a man.

 

[acidicality]

I think my main point was that rape was about control rather than the sexual stuff. I remember hearing of cases of women raping men because of the power andcontrol they feel from it...like, that's what they wanna get out of it rather than the sexual experience itself. I think it was from my intro to psychologyclass a few years ago.

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by acidicality

I think my main point was that rape was about control rather than the sexual stuff. I remember hearing of cases of women raping men because of the power and control they feel from it...like, that's what they wanna get out of it rather than the sexual experience itself. I think it was from my intro to psychology class a few years ago.

I'll say it again for good measure.....the power and control they feel can be "sexually arousing". There are otherways of gaining control without being physical.

Dominance and control and violence CAN BE sexually arousing.....NORMAL people get their fix by role-playing and fantasizing....

 

[nako xl]

youre overreaching. just because in some cases something CAN be sexually arousing doesnt mean its the case in all cases. but i understand youre arguing withsomeone (i got here late so im not quite sure who?) that in some cases rape can be sexually arousing. sure.

but the majority of rape incidents have little to do with SEX as far as a means to have intercourse goes.

and with that im done with this thread, and nt for the night.

night y'all

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by Nako XL

youre overreaching. just because in some cases something CAN be sexually arousing doesnt mean its the case in all cases. but i understand youre arguing with someone (i got here late so im not quite sure who?) that in some cases rape can be sexually arousing. sure.

but the majority of rape incidents have little to do with SEX as far as a means to have intercourse goes.

and with that im done with this thread, and nt for the night.

night y'all

The majority? oh rly?


How are we overreaching?......I gave you an example of a very prevalent sexual act involving dominance. It can be both.......dominance can be sexuallyarousing. violence can be sexually arousing. Stop using the word "majority" here without providing evidence.

 

[antonlavey]

Sadomasochism is a humiliating and degrading form of sexual perversion practiced by those who suffer from emotional problems. Studieshave shown that prior emotional, sexual, and/or physical abuse can contribute to a person's need to engage in this sel f- destructive behavior. There aretwo roles in the sadomasochistic setting. The dominant person (sadist) who derives sexual pleasure by degrading, humiliating, bindingand/or inflicting pain upon his/her sex partner, and the submissive partner (masoch ist) who receives this mistreatment, and in theprocess, claims to derive sexual pleasure. Unfortunately, death has resulted from this form of sex-play. It is my belief that sadomasochism is a dangerous formof sex-play and should be addressed as a perversion that requires psychological therapy.

 

[antonlavey]

[h4]JOURNAL ARTICLES providing evidence that Dominance sexually arouses certain people.
[/h4]

• Adler, Hildegard (1994). Horigkeit: eine neurotische perversion. Psyche: Zeitschrift fur Psychoanalyse und ihre Anwendungen, 48, (9-10), 886-903.

• Argues that the perversion of bondage in sadomasochism appears in external realities. The incidence of masochistic perversion is illustrated in the trasference and counter transference processes in analysis.

• Blos Jr. MD, Peter. (1991) Sadomasochism and the defense against recall of painful affect. Journal of the American Psychoanalytic Association, 39(2), 417- 429.

• Presentation that transference often occurs, in that, the patient views him/herself as a victim in analysis and considers the therapist as the inflictor. Concurrently, counter transference can occur. The patient's past experience with trauma and seperati on seem to account for this action.

• Gagnier, Terril T.; Robertiello, Richard C. (1993). Sado-masochism as a defense against merging: six case studies. Journal of Contemporary Psychotherapy, 23, (3), 183-192.

• Results of a study involving six patients who displayed sadomasochism in the sexual forum and/or in interpersonal relationships as an expression of a fear of merging. Subjects had extreme difficulty abandoning the destructive relationships.

• Haney, Curtis; Banks, Curtis; Zimbardo, Philip (1973) Interpersonal Dynamics in a Simulated Prison. International Journal of Criminology and Penology, 1, 69-97.
• Kernberg, Otto F. (1993) Sadomasochismus sexuelle Erregung und Perversion. Zeitschrift fur Psychoanalytische Theorie und Praxis. 8(4), 319-34

• Discusses sadomasochism as a perversion. Classifies the perversion from a normal sexual relationship to perversions that are destructive and seen in severe psychopathologies.

• Levitt Ph.D., Eugene E.; Moser Ph.D., Charles; and Jamison MSW, Karen V. (1994) The prevalence and some attributes of females in the sadomasochistic subculture: a second report. Archives of Sexual Behavior, 23 (4).

• Study showing that nonprostitute women are rare in the sadomasochism subculture. It is also revealed that the majority of females (prostitutes) involved in sadomasochism are unmarried and better educated than the general public.

• Minerbo, Marion. Sobre a perversao da etica. Percurso: Revista de Psicanalise, 7,(13), 65-70.

• Discussion supporting a contention that all addictions are symptoms of sexual deviations, in which, a person builds his/her own world. Masochistic and sadistic behaviors are regarded as sexual obsessions. Quotes from Dostoyevsky's autobiographical works a re employed to support this belief.

• Richards, Arlene K. (1992) Bisexuality, perversion and childhood sexual abuse. Issues in Ego Psychology, 15, (1), 33-43.

• Case report in which a 24-year old woman was treated for perversity in bisexual wavering. Results show that early childhood abuse led to the sadomasochistic enactments.

• Ribas, Denys (1992). La mort pervers: Desidentification primaire, adhesivite et pulsion de mort dans les perversions. Revue Francaise de Psychanalyse, 56, 1665-1671.

• Discusses the role of disidentification and adhesive identity in perversions. Also shows a relationship between perversion and the death instinct. Uses the death of an artist to exemplify the constant threat of death when perversion is involved.

• Simon, William (1994) Deviance as history: the future of perversion. Archives of Sexual Behavior, 23, (1), 1-19.

• Explains how social constructionism is related to sexual deviance and sexual perversion. Both are seen in relation to nonsexual and sexual discourse. As society changes, so will the conceptions of masturbation, homosexuality, pedophilia, and sadomasochi sm.

• Tomassini, Massimo. (1992) Desidentification primaire, angoisse de seperation et formation de la structure perverse. Review Francaise de Psychanalyse. 56, 1541-1614.

• Conference presentation linking sadomasochism with a person's inability to tolerate seperation from and disidentification with his/her love objects. Reviews nine clinical cases in which a traumatic seperation from or abandonment of, a love object, result ed in perversion.

• Vincent, Michel. (1992) Les temps de la perversion. Review Francaise de Psychanalyse. 56, 1685-1692.

• Commentary on a conference presentation where sadomasochism is correlated with the development of the ego in adolescence. Discusses possibilities of encountering this perversion in analysis.

[h4]BOOKS[/h4]

• Bullough, Vern ed.; Weinberg, Thomas S. Masochism. Human Sexuality an Encyclopedia. Garland Publishing Inc., N.Y. and London, (1994). pp. 377-379

• Definition of masochism. Describes the submissive person who accepts torment from another. This is usually in a sexual setting.

• Bullough, Vern ed.; Weinberg, Thomas S. Sadism. Human Sexuality an Encyclopedia. Garland Publishing Inc., N.Y. and London, (1994). pp. 527-528.

• Definition of Sadism. Involves the humiliation, degradation, beating, and/or binding, to inflict pain upon another, while deriving sexual pleasure.
  Diagnostic Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders 4th ed. American Psychiatric Association, Washington D.C. (1995), pp. 529-530.

  Lists criteria for diagnosing sadism and masochism as an illness. A clinically significant distress involving social, occupational, or other important areas of function, along with recurring sadomasochistic arousal fantasies are involved in the diagnoses.

• Francoer, Robert, T. Taking Sides: Clashing Views on Controversial Issues in Human Sexuality. Guilford, Conn., Duskin Publishing Group, Inc., (1994), p.50.
• Francour, Robert ed. The Complete Dictionary of Sexology. The Continuum Publishing Co., N.Y., (1995). p.556.

• Definition of sadomasochism entailing sadistic and masochistic behaviors that are usually acted out sexually.

• Linden, Robin Ruth. Against Sadomasochism: A Radical Feminist Analysis. U.S.A., Library of Congress Cataloging in Publication Data, (1982). pp. 7-10.

 

[eaalto]

I think it is funny how so many people in here are speaking as if they actually know what it is like to be a rapist, and what a rapist feels, and why a rapistdoes what he/she does. Unless any of you are speaking from experience, you really are just pushing your opinion as fact, or attributing what one rapist mighthave said to all rapists.

To completely argue against rape as a reproductive strategy for those unable to mate by "standard" means is ignorant. Believing in it as a possiblereason behind rape is not.

And to not want to compare humans to animals is foolish too. Humans are animals just as much as monkeys and dolphins are animals. We just have a much moreadvanced civilization and social structure.

Example of how a rapist uses force as a coercive method to get sex:
The rapist wants sex. The rapist sees an attractive victim. The rapist decides they are going to have sex with said victim, whether or not the victimconsents. The rapist will have sex with the victim. Victim does not wish to have sex with the rapist. The rapistdoes not care that the victim does not wish to have sex with them, and uses force as their coercive method to achieve wanted sex.

Example of how a normal person uses communication as a coercive method to get sex:
The normal person wants sex. The normal person sees an attractive potential mate. The normal person decides they are going to have sex with said potentialmate, and try their hardest to earn the potential mate's consent. The normal person exercises his first attempt: "Hey, do you want to go have sexwith me?" The potential mate looks the normal person up and down, says sure, and they go and have sex. The normal person was able to use his physicalappearance and confident demeanor to coerce his potential mate into fornication.

Not all rape scenarios are motivated solely by sexual urge, but it is ridiculous to sit here and chastise Anton for making an extremely valid point.

The hypothetical posed by the OP was whether or not rape would exist if sex wasn't a taboo in society.

Think about Islam. Many women are required to be fully clothed and show nearly no skin. If you are raised in such an environment, seeing a woman's wrist,shoulder, etc. can be extremely erotic.

Think about your own upbringing. I didn't grow up seeing ******* and vagina every day. When I did see ******* and vagina in movies, magazines, etc., Igot a boner.

If I grew up in a nudist colony, ******* and vagina would be so commonplace that I would probably not be as aroused by it because I see it so frequently.

Human sexuality is ingrained in our heads at a young age as taboo. Wait until you're married to have sex. If you sex out of wedlock, you are a loosewoman. So on and so forth.

If people walked around naked all the time, you would eventually stop caring about looking at every woman's boobs, @@@ and vagina.

If sex were encouraged from a young age, and not condemned by religious a-holes, the desire for it would be seriously waned because it would not be as specialand unique as fairy tales and everyone else would have it.

So the hypothetical was not whether or not rape would still be considered rape, but that if sex were not as taboo, maybe rape wouldn't even be a thought inpeople's minds because they don't put sex on a pedestal in this dream society.

 

[antonlavey]

^^^GREAT POST

People act like it's unfathomable that someone would want commit rape simply because they wanted to have sex.

 

[onhollowedground821]

Is this seriously a topic???

 

[18key]

Originally Posted by ONHOLLOWEDGROUND821

Is this seriously a topic???

And its not even about the OG topic anymore. Go figure.

 

[eight2one]

imagine porky pig raping elmer fudd.

 

[akademikgenius]

Originally Posted by TrueBlack88

Originally Posted by gabbyflo

Of course it would.

Rape is about power and control; it is an act of violence.

Pretty much. I was reading a story about some region of Africa that is war-torn and rape was being used as a way of punishing people if they fought against the dictator or spoke out, etc. Wild stuff...

thats how the GERM is spread.

 

[twig1026]

If sex was a taboo, eventually some guy would see how good it is and want a lot more. It's pretty much inevitable and I mean that in a non-humorous way

 

[cycopth]

what is rape?
rape is about power and control.........ask the biggest rapist (the government)why they rape people everyday........