I can't stand KG now..

[dearwinter219]

Originally Posted by yungmatt

Originally Posted by DearWinter219

No, no I'm not. I just typed all of that to give you something to

at.

Question, if we're comparing individuals, why would I need to say "KG put up better individual #s than TD from 01-04" . Wasn't that the original claim in the first place? I'm not a fan of redundancy. Were you serious?!

Jerry Stackhouse averaged about 30 in 00-01? Would you say that he was a better player than Kobe in that season? I mean, the Lakers should have been able to still win the title if they swapped Stack with Kobe that season.. According to your logic, you know, since numbers tell it all.

Keep trying. Points isn't the only stat. Keep going. Really compare the two if you're gonna use that line of logic. If not, don'tpretend to. The logic isn't flawed, your execution is.

 

[yungmatt]

Originally Posted by DearWinter219

Originally Posted by yungmatt

Originally Posted by DearWinter219

No, no I'm not. I just typed all of that to give you something to

at.

Question, if we're comparing individuals, why would I need to say "KG put up better individual #s than TD from 01-04" . Wasn't that the original claim in the first place? I'm not a fan of redundancy. Were you serious?!

Jerry Stackhouse averaged about 30 in 00-01? Would you say that he was a better player than Kobe in that season? I mean, the Lakers should have been able to still win the title if they swapped Stack with Kobe that season.. According to your logic, you know, since numbers tell it all.

Keep trying. Points isn't the only stat. Keep going. Really compare the two if you're gonna use that line of logic. If not, don't pretend to. The logic isn't flawed, your execution is.

You know absolutely nothing about hoops

I dont know why I even responded to you in the first place.... Ill just stick to responding you in the music forum

 

[fundamental21ticket]

Like I've said before, I'm a huge KG fan, but you cannot compare him to Duncan. You have to compare TD to Shaq to make it a better argument.

 

[doyung9]

KG is a love'em or hate'em kind of guy. If you guys in LA, Cleveland, Chicago, Sandusky, or Bozeman Montana had him, you'd like him as much as thepeople in Boston do. So he says MF'er (WAY more than anyone else), but so do a ton of NBA players. This playoffs alone, I've seen BG say it, JR Smith,Carmelo, Josh Smith... so what?

You guys don't curse? Or let me guess, you belong to the group of people who actually think cursing is anything different than saying "darn" orany other word. If the intent is there when you say "darn" it doesn't matter if you say darn, d*mn, or g'd*mnit... you meant the same thing.

I have no problem with KG cursing. I don't have a problem with anyone cursing. I think a bunch of people just don't like KG because he's skinny andloud, super talented, and got a CHAMPIONSHIP and you're at home watching TV, eating hot pockets, wishing you would have done more bench press and agilitydrills when you were in high school.

 

[dearwinter219]

Originally Posted by yAyToNyO

Garnett didn't put up better numbers than Duncan from 01-04. Did you even look at Duncan's numbers during this time span? If anything, their numbers are similar across the board, with both players excelling in different areas.
Duncan's avgs during this time span.
YEARS PPG REB ASST BLKS
00-01 22.2 12.2 3.0 2.3
01-02 25.5 12.7 3.7 2.5
02-03 23.3 12.9 3.9 2.9
03-04 22.3 12.5 3.1 2.7

Also, Duncan won back to back MVP's in 02 and 03, as well as an NBA championship in 03. And let's not even talk about comparing Duncan and Garnett's playoff numbers and success during this time period.

If anything, you're the most correct out of those that made counter points. It comes down to weighing assists against blocks. At that time, KGwas more of a hybrid 3/4 and TD was a traditional post up 4. So KG got more assists. To me, it's more valuable to your team chemistry to have those assistnumbers because every assist is also 2 or 3 pts scored by someone else. A block is "just" a block. As far as 'yoff numbers and accolades, a lotof that has to do with your team. You know this. The Spurs have always been a better team than what KG was accustomed to (sans last year). A good PG will getyou easy baskets. KG didn't really have much of that. A good wing player will relieve some double teams. KG had some of that in Spree and wally, butit's not the same as leaving bowen in the corner or sleaving tony or Manu to double down on TD. It's just easier to shine with a little help,that's all.

 

[ctdaprince]

Well what if KG wouldve had the supporting cast and Coach pop his whole career he would have the same amount of titles maybe even more

 

[dako akong otin]

^^ interesting how a Laker fan is defending KG... at least the laker haters won't blame the KG hate on laker fans

Anyway, KG is a dork to me. Being 33 years old acting like he's a high school kid.. Can't deny his greatness though. I admit during his T-Wolvesdays, i always said KG was better than Duncan. (Duncan was crapping on the Lakers then

) Now KG's a Celtic, I'm on Duncan's side now

 

[bigmike23]

Originally Posted by Seymore CAKE

Thats my guy but he is getting on my %#*+#%+ nerves right now...


Just because he's talking to my squad tho

 

[dearwinter219]

Originally Posted by yungmatt

Originally Posted by DearWinter219

Originally Posted by yungmatt

Originally Posted by DearWinter219

No, no I'm not. I just typed all of that to give you something to

at.

Question, if we're comparing individuals, why would I need to say "KG put up better individual #s than TD from 01-04" . Wasn't that the original claim in the first place? I'm not a fan of redundancy. Were you serious?!

Jerry Stackhouse averaged about 30 in 00-01? Would you say that he was a better player than Kobe in that season? I mean, the Lakers should have been able to still win the title if they swapped Stack with Kobe that season.. According to your logic, you know, since numbers tell it all.

Keep trying. Points isn't the only stat. Keep going. Really compare the two if you're gonna use that line of logic. If not, don't pretend to. The logic isn't flawed, your execution is.

You know absolutely nothing about hoops

I dont know why I even responded to you in the first place.... Ill just stick to responding you in the music forum

Post up Kobe and Stack's stats then. Go ahead. Show me how avg. more points conclusively says stack is better than Kobe. You said it, not me. Now show it.Cause I'm sure Kobe had more mins, assists, rebounds, and steals. But go ahead, prove your sarcastic point.

 

[yungmatt]

Originally Posted by DearWinter219

Originally Posted by yungmatt

Originally Posted by DearWinter219

Originally Posted by yungmatt

Originally Posted by DearWinter219

No, no I'm not. I just typed all of that to give you something to

at.

Question, if we're comparing individuals, why would I need to say "KG put up better individual #s than TD from 01-04" . Wasn't that the original claim in the first place? I'm not a fan of redundancy. Were you serious?!

Jerry Stackhouse averaged about 30 in 00-01? Would you say that he was a better player than Kobe in that season? I mean, the Lakers should have been able to still win the title if they swapped Stack with Kobe that season.. According to your logic, you know, since numbers tell it all.

Keep trying. Points isn't the only stat. Keep going. Really compare the two if you're gonna use that line of logic. If not, don't pretend to. The logic isn't flawed, your execution is.

You know absolutely nothing about hoops

I dont know why I even responded to you in the first place.... Ill just stick to responding you in the music forum

Post up Kobe and Stack's stats then. Go ahead. Show me how avg. more points conclusively says stack is better than Kobe. You said it, not me. Now show it. Cause I'm sure Kobe had more mins, assists, rebounds, and steals. But go ahead, prove your sarcastic point.

I wasnt being sarcastic at all... I sincerely believe that you know absolutely nothing about basketball...

Ill look up the stats anyway though

 

[dearwinter219]

Originally Posted by dako akong otin

^^ interesting how a Laker fan is defending KG... at least the laker haters won't blame the KG hate on laker fans

Anyway, KG is a dork to me. Being 33 years old acting like he's a high school kid.. Can't deny his greatness though. I admit during his T-Wolves days, i always said KG was better than Duncan. (Duncan was crapping on the Lakers then

) Now KG's a Celtic not as RIDICULOUS, I'm on Duncan's side now

Pretty much

. But I've always had respect for TD. I just think the amount of production combined with the versatility that KG had was INSANE. TD is apure PF, hands down. He's the best pure PF I've ever seen. But KG isn't pure. That's why he'sgreat. I remember when he was on some "gimme the game winning 3 point shot" +%%# against Sac town. It was unbelievable....like...what CAN'T this__ do?!

 

[dearwinter219]

If you weren't being sarcastic, then you're stupid. Which one is it Matt? As I recall T-mac won some scoring titles too. He wasn't the best playerthose years. Why? There's other stats. As I said, ranking players based on stats is the only objective measuring stick. Ranking players based on ONEstat.... is dumb. But go ahead, post your ONE stat comparison of Kobe and Stack in an attempt to take my statement out of context.

 

[freezetag]

aubstuh86 wrote:

---

dude is one of the most overrated players in nba history. and all his "emotion" on the court is a fraud.


you know nothing about basketball.

on another note, you Laker fans were creaming in yall pants when you thought KG was coming to LA...so all this hate from yall is ridiculous.

 

[i nasmatic i]

While I feel Garnett is more skilled than Duncan, I always felt Duncan was better. Garnett and Duncan are about equal as far as rebounders and defenders.Garnett is/was a better passer too. However, Duncan was better in the low post and delivered when it mattered most.

 

[dako akong otin]

FreezeTag wrote:

on another note, you Laker fans were creaming in yall paint when you thought KG was coming to LA...so all this hate from yall is ridiculous.
the guy who's consistently defending KG here IS A LAKER FAN

 

[fuser86]

Duncan is a class act while KG is pure ghettoness(if that's a word).

 

[craftsy21]

You guys don't curse? Or let me guess, you belong to the group of people who actually think cursing is anything different than saying "darn" or any other word. If the intent is there when you say "darn" it doesn't matter if you say darn, d*mn, or g'd*mnit... you meant the same thing.

I have no problem with cursing - I curse as much as anybody I've ever met, but there's a time and a place... and a need. You don't just throw thewords around in front of a national audience like he does minute after minute, year after year... dude is a child with it, like he's 12 years old and hejust learned a new "bad word".

The guy has serious attitude issues, and seemingly some emotional problems as well given his antics on the court. I've been bugged by him since almost thefirst time i saw him play way back when - but it's just recently become this more popular opinion to dislike the guy, and I'm glad to see that myinitial notions about him aren't as far out there as I once thought. Dude is a weirdo, and does not seem like a good person to boot.

That's more than enough reason to dislike him, in my book.

 

[addict4sneakers]

the difference between KG and TD is that one of them wants the ball in the 4th qtr and the other doesnt.

 

[JD617]

I didn't even read anything in this thread after I saw "KG is overrated" in the first post.

If you don't like KG, fine. 80% of NT hates the guy. But don't make yourself look like a moron in the process.

 

[theblackhole76]

 

[dako akong otin]

ya for real

I can't stand KG lately but no way he is overrated. Celts definitely need him now

 

[freezetag]

dako akong otin wrote:

---

FreezeTag wrote:

on another note, you Laker fans were creaming in yall paint when you thought KG was coming to LA...so all this hate from yall is ridiculous.
the guy who's consistently defending KG here IS A LAKER FAN

nah you right i am a Laker fan but this thread is full of people saying they hate him bc he talks too much. That just sounds real girly man to me, i could seeif dude was a bum talking reckless but this guy is a guaranteed HOFer.

so what im basically saying is this dude is good enough to talk reckless and wild as he wants. I thing about of this thread is bc hes winning now, people aregetting annoyed with him.

 

[dearwinter219]

Originally Posted by FreezeTag

dako akong otin wrote:

---

FreezeTag wrote:

on another note, you Laker fans were creaming in yall paint when you thought KG was coming to LA...so all this hate from yall is ridiculous.

the guy who's consistently defending KG here IS A LAKER FAN

nah you right i am a Laker fan but this thread is full of people saying they hate him bc he talks too much. That just sounds real girly man to me, i could see if dude was a bum talking reckless but this guy is a guaranteed HOFer.

so what im basically saying is this dude is good enough to talk reckless and wild as he wants. I think about of this thread is bc hes winning now, people are getting annoyed with him.

qft

 

[theblackhole76]

Originally Posted by DearWinter219

What? Then what the hell is the purpose of statistics? What do they measure and why? Why include them if they weren't the one objective way to compare players? So regardless of what the stats say, you feel TD was better at the time? Is that what's up? That's how we argue now? With feelings? Like girls? Let us be logical here. I mean, it's all personal opinion anyway so I could have said I liked KG's intensity over TD's laid back demeanor. I could have said I liked his style of ball more. But that's all qualitative and not quantitative. What I use to measure a player and decide if he's better than the next guy; and what actually has universal merit in the matter, are the numbers. Period. Math is the only universal language.

I've made a number of statistics-based argument in my day (largely rebuffed by people who don't understand the real point), but even Iwill say this is ridiculous. Unlike in some other sports (say, baseball), statistics only get you so far in basketball. In NO WAY are they worthless (there arevery important objective truths to be found in them), but in the same token, in NO WAY are they the be-all and end-all of discussion.

More on topic, KG vs. TD cannot be purely laid down in statistics. It may sound corny and foolishly vague, but TD brings so many things to the table thatcannot be quantified in standard basketball statistics.

- Although TD's assist numbers may not be on par with KG, TD has been well praised as quite possibly the most unselfish superstar in the league. He demandsvery little, but gives everything. He is only selfish when he needs to be, when something needs to be done. He always defers to teammates when it's a goodbasketball decision to defer. He does not scream, yell, or rant when he's not getting touches. He does not require the ball to be effective on the floor.His contributions allow other players to do what they are good at without stealing their thunder.

- For nearly his entire career, TD has been the unquestioned anchor of one the best defensive teams year-in, year-out. Standard basketball statistics ondefense are unquestionably primitive. TD's effect on defense is universally praised and respected, and the mandeserves a DPOY Lifetime Achievement Award. Any statistics based argument is going to fall flat on this one... you just cannot use statistics -- the toolscommonly available just do not capture anything worthwhile (steals and blocks absolutely do not define a player or team's defense).

- What TD brings to the table (that KG doesn't) -- low post presence, defense, interior toughness -- is a LOT harder to find than what KG brings to thetable (that TD doesn't) -- shooting, length, ball-handling. To replace what KG does is much easier to replace in today's league than to replace what TDdoes.

- The things that TD are better at than KG are the exact things that almost everyone agrees are the keys to successful playoff runs, particularly interiordefense and low post presence. The playoffs are almost universally agreed to be a whole different animal than the regular season. Statistically it has beenshown that the pace does in fact slow down and defense improves. Playoff games are much more likely to become grind-it-out affairs... which is exactly thestyle of ball TD is better at. TD is, quite simply, better suited to winning championships.

- TD brings a very strong culture of professionalism and humbleness to his team. TD sets the example for his team and his relationship with Gregg Popovich isone that is to be absoultely respected. He listens when his coach tries to tell him something and he is very willing to do what is necessary to improve histeam. This professionalism and classiness heavily trickles down in the spurs roster. It engenders constant improvement, a winning attitude, and deep mutualrespect among teammates and coaches. What statistics would tell you that?

 

[theblackhole76]

Also, if you're going to use statistics properly, you should have noted that KG does play a lot of minutes ...a lot more than TD. TD plays less minutesbecause Popovich explicitly has a system of resting his starters to setup a succesful playoff run. KG has more minutes and so of course has higher stats. Ifyou want a stats-based argument:
- Tim Duncan has a higher average PER than KG from 01-04... (and note that if you wanna do an all stats-based argument, PER is generally pretty good... sinceit factors in the team's pace and the minutes per game played)
- Tim Duncan has higher Win Shares for those three years than KG does.
- From 01-04, Per 40 mins, Tim Duncan during that period actually has higher points per game and rebounds per game than KG does, while shooting a better FG%and with less turnovers.
... if you wanna use stats, don't trot out the most basic and primitive statistics to argue the point.