QB THREAD - 2x quarterbacky award winner: Lamar Jackson

[CP1708]

Also Steve young is too low.

The disrespect for Steve Young

You guys romanticizing. Steve had 7 good years. 92-98. You want him above Tier 4 off 7 years? (3 of those he didn't play more than 12 games)

 

[IATT]

Steve young was great in the USFL.. and then got f’d in Tampa

just like elway was carrying a bunch of crap to Super Bowls in the 80s

 

[elpablo21]

Yeah this is the only thing there is to support the idea but it’s for devils advocate reasons at best. I’m sure that’s the authors reason which is what you are saying. But it’s still wrong.

Tbh Favre is a good example of why we can’t crown Mahomes of anything yet. As much as I think Mahomes will end up being an obvious choice as the best to ever do it, lets look at Favre.

the beginning of Favres career was ridiculously good. 3x MVP’s 2 Super Bowl appearances and 1 ring right out of the gate.

then what. A whole decade of solid play at best to yikes at worst. Most of it somewhere in between.

I still think Mahomes is already in the lower tiers

 

[CP1708]

Workin on a project I've wanted to research. (Most of it inspired by this very site, and a lot of this thread, NFL thread too)

Info is spotty because a lot of sites don't gather ALL data on QB salaries, but I've pulled at least 25+ years of info)

Money in Salary Cap Numbers

2019 Mahomes 31st in Salary, Jimmy G 15th in Salary
2018 Brady 11th, Goff 26th
2017 Foles 41st or 42nd, Brady 20th
2016 Brady 18th, Matt Ryan 3rd
2015 Peyton 6th, Cam 15th
2014 Brady 12th, Russ 51st
2013 Russ 52nd, Peyton 3rd
2012 Flacco 17th, Kap 42nd
2011 Eli 5th, Brady 8th
2010 Rodgers 21st, Ben 14th
2009 Brees 14th, Peyton 1st
2008 Ben 11th, Warner 15th
2007 Eli 4th, Brady 10th
2006 Peyton 6th, Rex Grossman (I can't find data)
2005 Ben 14th, Hasselback 10th
2004 Brady 8th, McNabb 4th
2003 Brady 13th, Delhomme (I can't find data)
2002 I can't find data on Brad Johnson or Rich Gannon
2001 Brady 300K, Warner 10th
2000 I can't find data on Dilfer or Kerry Collins
1999 Warner 750K, McNair 4th
1998 Elway 9th, (Atl QB, I can't find data)
1997 Elway 8th, Favre 4th
1996 Favre 5th, Bledsoe 6th
1995 Aikman 6th, O'Donnell (I can't find data)

So, recap......highest paid QB Winner league wide, Eli Manning 4th in 2007 (helmet catch), Eli 5th in 2011, and Favre 5th in 1996.

1996 Favre 5th, and Bledsoe 6th is the highest QB salary Duo in SB the last 25+ seasons.

1 time the highest paid QB made a Super Bowl since at least '95, that was Peyton in 2009, and he lost to the 14th highest paid QB.

Brady 6 SB wins
300K (I don't even know where that ranked on the season, 40th?)
13th
8th
12th
18th
11th

His three losses, 10th, 8th, 20th

9 Super Bowls, his highest salary rank those years = 8th.

Peyton had the most #1 rankings. 5 total seasons.
2002
2003
2008
2009
2012

His two Super Bowl wins came when he had the 6th highest cap hit both years. He was age 30, and 39.
After his rookie year, he never slipped out of the Top 10 in salary cap hit any year. (Possible his early 98-99-00 numbers could be skewed, I can't be positive)

 

[IATT]

In 2017 the eagles had $20,448,686 combined against the cap for QBs

only the ravens, cardinals, Washington, falcons and dolphins had bigger cap hits to the QB position that year

Daniel: $7,000,000 (dead cap)
wentz: $6,062,804
Bradford: $5,500,000 (dead cap)
Foles: $1,600,000
Suddeld: $285, 882

2017 Quarterback Contracts and Salaries | Over The Cap

Ranking the top NFL 2017 Quarterback contracts and salaries in the NFL

overthecap.com

 

[mister friendly]

Tier 1

Brady, Montana, Manning

Tier 2

Brees, Unitas, Young

Tier 3

Favre, Elway, Graham, Marino

Tier 4

Rodgers,Bradshaw, Staubach, Starr, Aikman

Tier5

Tarkenton, Moon, Warner, Roesthlisberger, Wilson

 

[DeadsetAce]

for me and just sticking to three tiers (not based on favorites, but just a full career of performance/accomplishments)....

tier 1: brady, marino, manning, montana
tier 2: favre, elway, young, brees, fraudgers
tier 3: warner, kelly, aikman, bradshaw


i have to leave off those black and white photo QBs cause i really have no idea. but you can sprinkle in unitas, otto, starr, and staubach in those tiers, obviously. as well as QBs who are early or just midway through their careers since they have a lot left to be written

 

[IATT]

Over the cap did some stuff on QB contracts





and a lot of talk on the subject in this podcast (I was listening for the eagles stuff.. but a lot of stuff on QB contracts and roster building to start):



also

 

[JusaVibe]

I expect Rodgers to move down tiers soon enough.

 

[elpablo21]

2019-20 Deep Ball Project

No, your eyes were not deceiving you: even as a rookie, Kyler Murray was the league's most accurate passer on deep balls. Guest columnist John Kinsley pores through the splits to examine deep balls by direction, out of shotgun, under pressure, and in other situations.

www.footballoutsiders.com

 

[DeadsetAce]

^ interesting read. and def. exposes some redzone/box score misconceptions that people have (including myself in that)

 

[unkn0wn]

I'd put Marino in tier 2. Best QB to never win a ring.

 

[CP1708]

I said it on Twitter yesterday, and truly meant it......I never expected to actually like watching Josh Allen play. It's confusing, but he can be a trainwreck one play, and put an absolute seed in a breadbasket the next. Diggs is a perfect fit for them, but he really is fun to watch.

Kyler is, but he seems to be throwin a few too many INT's.

THIS, Russell, I give all the props too. This is what I'm talkin about, and I suspect he about to do very bad things to my defense this week.

Obviously way tooooooo early, but Burrow "looks" the part. He might be dead in a month, but he LOOKS legit. I mean that, he might really be dead in a month. Penei Sewell seems like a lock.

I am sad watching Drew Brees. I mean, Derek Carr thinks he throws the ball sideways too much. I can't believe it. (Tho I probably should)

Aaron Rodgers def seems to be a little more motivated.....maybe? I still don't understand why as a franchise you didn't try to maybe give him a couple extra weapons to have fun with. But who knows, maybe they'll be set up just fine in a couple years and Love will be great for another 10+ and they'll just keep on competing forever.

Sam Darnold........he may not be a Jet next year.

Trevor Lawrence, you should get Sam's phone number.

Looking forward to Lamar/Mahomes tonight.

 

[elpablo21]

Russ on pace for 50
Mahomes with one INT and isn't in even his final form
Tom Brady won't go away
I thought Burrow had OROY locked up and then a wild Herbo appeared
Lamar is having some hiccups following his MVP szn
Jimmy G is a broken man. Cam Newton is a broken man. Wentz is a broken man

Alot of QBs didn't even reach 200 yards and some games barely cracked 300 yards combined.

 

[CP1708]

Russ on pace for 50
Mahomes with one INT and isn't in even his final form
Tom Brady won't go away
I thought Burrow had OROY locked up and then a wild Herbo appeared
Lamar is having some hiccups following his MVP szn
Jimmy G is a broken man. Cam Newton is a broken man. Wentz is a broken man

Alot of QBs didn't even reach 200 yards and some games barely cracked 300 yards combined.

Add Ben is undefeated
Josh Allen is "better" but has slowed the last month or so
and what Kyler is doing this early.....

It's an interesting mix of young and old. Rodgers hasn't been terrible either.

 

[Clyde Frog]

Through 8 games Rodgers has 2,250 yards, 24 TD’s and 2 Ints. On pace for 4,500 48 and 4.

about a quarter of the way through I felt Rodgers would have an MVP caliber season but still lose to Russ. At the halfway I still feel it’s Russ’ award to lose. Not even simply because Russ is due. He’s been that good and I don’t see him slowing down. But Rodgers isn’t far behind at all.

id be happy to see Russ win it. But I’m still happy my QB is back.

 

[elpablo21]

Russ can't afford any drop offs

Mahomes is right there too

 

[CP1708]

Yeeeeesh.

 

[elpablo21]

Mahomes gonna hit different legacy wise when its all said and done (knock on wood)

Russ has hit his median phase this szn, not quite MVP level but that's ok

AR is still quite the prototype if you ask me edit: Mahomes is obviously the new prototype but you get what I mean

Baker Mayfield really grinds my gears. Maybe he'll learn to get past a stubborn stage and move beyond bad mechanics and instincts

Derek Carr might be the literal definition of purgatory

Kyler hitting some bumps in the road

Goff is? Idk...is that all really Mcvay? Still one of the prettiest throws out there doe.

Seeing Burrow go down still sucks. Kid has it

Herbert is money long term still

Brady finally crumbling?

Where does NY do with Jones and Darnold

 

[CP1708]

My day yesterday......

I watched Sam Darnold and Ryan Fitzpatrick.
Then Taysom Hill and Denver "QB"
Then Brady-Mahomes
Finished with Trubisky and Rodgers.

Darnold, Fitz, Taysom, Denver, Trubisky.

Mahomes, Brady, Rodgers.

What a day.

Saints 7-0 without Brees, which.......I don't grasp.

Wentz doesn't get me @'d anymore, ever.

I have a Raider friend that nags me about Carr daily.......he musta been out yesterday.

Mahomes and that O is absurd. 24 was SICK all day long. Dude prolly never gonna play KC again.

Let's say, things continue.......Mahomes, HUGE year. MVP. Unanimous. (Or close to)

Ben goes 16-0, same conference, and wouldn't win MVP? Is that even possible?

 

[elpablo21]

Can't stand Ben off the field but his resurgence on the field will give him some serious looks. He's played up to it to this point

Will kinda depend on how Mahomes or AR run up the score stat wise and keep the team L's down to 2 or 3

 

[CP1708]

I agree, I wouldn't favor him, but imagine he goes 4K with 30-35 TD's, 100+ rating, 16-0 and doesn't win MVP. I would have no idea how to grasp that.

 

[DeadsetAce]

i didn't think it'd happen but the Bucs games give me the same stress Pats games gave me for years

*takes off TB12 homer hat for a min*

i still think Brady can play. i know everyone is just chomping at the bit to post things like "WASHED" or "NOODLE ARM" every time he misses a deep throw. but it's never been his game. he's made it work in the past with Moss or even Chris Hogan when our OL was a stone wall. but it was always opportunistic rather than doing it just to do it which is what Arians has a hard on for. it's just not a fit. but every time i hear "noodle arm" it makes me wonder what people are actually watching. he's not throwing the ball like Peyton was in 2015. his throws still have plenty of zip and tightness. he can still make those touch throws. but the main change or "decline" in his game is that he's not willing to stand in there and get lit up to make a throw anymore. so he'll rush the throw or throw while not set, and for a guy who has always relied on mechanics, it just doesn't work. so dropping back and waiting 3+ seconds for guys to get downfield while your line is leaking pass rushers is just not a strategy that fits his game now. and maybe that does that mean it's time to retire. or maybe it means Arians needs to adjust a bit. but long post short, Brady's decline isn't cause of his arm. it's cause of his unwillingness to take hits at this point in his career. we (NE fans) started seeing it a couple years back where he'll throw it away or chuck it into the ground almost immediately if he knows a play isn't there to be made. or he'll throw that out route or screen pass a tad too soon.

/end rant

*puts TB12 hat back on*

still my GOAT

 

[elpablo21]

Continuing the discussion of big QB leaps is Allen's year the best you've seen?

Leap, probably, but Tannehill has in baby steps. This is the first season his play has finally leveled off.

I can't really think of any. Tanne had a great leap because he seemed dead in the water until leaving Miami.

Allen is tapping into potential either some thought he could reach or some thought he absolutely could not

Gotta be some other examples

 

[651akathepaul]

Continuing the discussion of big QB leaps is Allen's year the best you've seen?



I can't really think of any. Tanne had a great leap because he seemed dead in the water until leaving Miami.

Allen is tapping into potential either some thought he could reach or some thought he absolutely could not

Gotta be some other examples

Lamar had a good sized leap.

Matt Ryan from year 2 to year 3.

Goff when McVay arrived.