Should transgender individuals be allowed to serve in the military?.

[gracian]

I asked a question. You didn't give an answer. You wanna try answering the question to whether or not you believe that women make good soldiers?

Depends on how you define "unnecessary"


Why can't you ask that question? Keep in mind, you can survive a suicide attempt

I believe that men usually make better soldiers than women, yes. Not always, but on average, they do.

 

[gracian]

sooo.. in the military you have to perform fitness tests and the guidelines are different for men and women..
which test do transgender people take? the male of female standard they identify with or the standard in which they are born?

This is why I stated that the solution is to hold males and females to equal standards. Then these guys would just cry that it is unfair to expect women to keep up with men.

so you can't say you have a female brain, you just identify with what you think is the social construct of a perceived female, just like someone identifies with what they perceive a black person to be

The only difference is that the mainstream left hasn't arbitrarily adopted the fight for transracials yet. If the media and universities started pushing for acceptance of people like Rachel Dolezal, they would fall right in line, or left in line as the case may be.

 

[deleted]

How do you know that that doesn't apply to transracial people? Do people of different races have discernibly different brain chemistry?
So what you are saying is that we should define race and sex by brain chemistry, and not by DNA, physical attributes, chromosomes and hormones?

Separate races do not differ in brain chemistry in the same way that genders do.

Transracial is not the same thing as transgender

 

[toneagain]

I believe that men usually make better soldiers than women, yes. Not always, but on average, they do.

she disagrees

 

[toneagain]

Separate races do not differ in brain chemistry in the same way that genders do.

Transracial is not the same thing as transgender

different genders don't differ in brain anatomy, they differ in behavior

 

[gracian]

Separate races do not differ in brain chemistry in the same way that genders do.

Transracial is not the same thing as transgender

They do not differ in brain chemistry in the same way? Explain.
You could say that their brain chemistry is similar to people who traditionally fit the societal definition of the gender that they wish to be, which is laughable,but sex and race aren't scientifically defined by brain chemistry.We define sex by chromosomes, hormones and sexual organs.
It sounds to me like transracial is actually more valid than transgender, according to your definitions.

different genders don't differ in brain anatomy, they differ in behavior

The right studies could probably find differences in brain chemistry among people of different economic status, race, etc. as well. It really means nothing. It is the only way that they can reach for some sort of scientific validity to quantify their delusions.

 

[deleted]

different genders don't differ in brain anatomy, they differ in behavior

You have no clue what you are talking about.

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/04/study-finds-some-significant-differences-brains-men-and-women

 

[deleted]

The right studies could probably find differences in brain chemistry among people of different economic status, race, etc. as well. It really means nothing. It is the only way that they can reach for some sort of scientific validity to quantify their delusions.

So studies mean nothing when they don't align with what you already believe?

So much for "I can't fall in line with the belief that science can be disproven by "feels" and political agendas" huh?

 

[gracian]

You have no clue what you are talking about.

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/04/study-finds-some-significant-differences-brains-men-and-women

I don't see anything in that link about transgenders.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-there-something-unique-about-the-transgender-brain/

“Trans people have brains that are different from males and females, a unique kind of brain,” Guillamon says. “It is simplistic to say that a female-to-male transgender person is a female trapped in a male body. It's not because they have a male brain but a transsexual brain.” Of course, behavior and experience shape brain anatomy, so it is impossible to say if these subtle differences are inborn.""

Impossible.

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/11/brains-men-and-women-aren-t-really-different-study-finds

So studies mean nothing when they don't align with what you already believe?

So much for "I can't fall in line with the belief that science can be disproven by "feels" and political agendas" huh?

Brain Chemistry is practically the definition of "feels".

 

[toneagain]

You have no clue what you are talking about.

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/04/study-finds-some-significant-differences-brains-men-and-women

Despite the study’s consistent sex-linked patterns, the researchers also found considerable overlap between men and women in brain volume and cortical thickness, just as you might find in height. In other words, just by looking at the brain scan, or height, of someone plucked at random from the study, researchers would be hard pressed to say whether it came from a man or woman. That suggests both sexes’ brains are far more similar than they are different.
from your source

 

[gracian]

Despite the study’s consistent sex-linked patterns, the researchers also found considerable overlap between men and women in brain volume and cortical thickness, just as you might find in height. In other words, just by looking at the brain scan, or height, of someone plucked at random from the study, researchers would be hard pressed to say whether it came from a man or woman. That suggests both sexes’ brains are far more similar than they are different.
from your source

Regardless, sex is not currently scientifically defined by brain chemistry or structure. I can guarantee you that the brain chemistry of schizophrenics is different than that of normal functioning brains, yet we don't attempt to convince them that the voices in their heads are real.

 

[deleted]

I don't see anything in that link about transgenders.

Maybe that's because the post was addressing your cheerleader who had just said that there are no differences between a male and female brain.

The rest of your quote is once again arguing against whether or not trans people are born that way. I am not sure why you and your crony keep trying to take the discussion in that direction.

Despite the study’s consistent sex-linked patterns, the researchers also found considerable overlap between men and women in brain volume and cortical thickness, just as you might find in height. In other words, just by looking at the brain scan, or height, of someone plucked at random from the study, researchers would be hard pressed to say whether it came from a man or woman. That suggests both sexes’ brains are far more similar than they are different.
from your source

Is "far more similar than they are different" the same as "no differences"?

 

[toneagain]

Maybe that's because the post was addressing your cheerleader who had just said that there are no differences between a male and female brain.

The rest of your quote is once again arguing against whether or not trans people are born that way. I am not sure why you and your crony keep trying to take the discussion in that direction.



Is "far more similar than they are different" the same as "no differences"?

this says no difference
just by looking at the brain scan, or height, of someone plucked at random from the study, researchers would be hard pressed to say whether it came from a man or woman.

 

[gracian]

Maybe that's because the post was addressing your cheerleader who had just said that there are no differences between a male and female brain.

The rest of your quote is once again arguing against whether or not trans people are born that way. I am not sure why you and your crony keep trying to take the discussion in that direction.



Is "far more similar than they are different" the same as "no differences"?

So you are arguing whether they were "born that way"? It doesn't make a difference. We can agree that you cannot be born into the wrong social construct.

Let's be clear here, sex is defined by chromosomes, hormones and sexual organs. A person who claims to be trans is dealing with a psychological issue, not a biological one.

 

[deleted]

this says no difference
just by looking at the brain scan, or height, of someone plucked at random from the study, researchers would be hard pressed to say whether it came from a man or woman.

And what does this say?

"Adjusting for age, on average, they found that women tended to have significantly thicker cortices than men. Thicker cortices have been associated with higher scores on a variety of cognitive and general intelligence tests. Meanwhile, men had higher brain volumes than women in every subcortical region they looked at, including the hippocampus"

So you are arguing whether they were "born that way"?

Aight I'm done...someone else can waste their time here.

 

[toneagain]

And what does this say?

"Adjusting for age, on average, they found that women tended to have significantly thicker cortices than men. Thicker cortices have been associated with higher scores on a variety of cognitive and general intelligence tests. Meanwhile, men had higher brain volumes than women in every subcortical region they looked at, including the hippocampus"



Aight I'm done...someone else can waste their time here.

and again from that same article "just by looking at the brain scan, or height, of someone plucked at random from the study, researchers would be hard pressed to say whether it came from a man or woman."

 

[gracian]

And what does this say?

"Adjusting for age, on average, they found that women tended to have significantly thicker cortices than men. Thicker cortices have been associated with higher scores on a variety of cognitive and general intelligence tests. Meanwhile, men had higher brain volumes than women in every subcortical region they looked at, including the hippocampus"



Aight I'm done...someone else can waste their time here.

This type of language is reminiscent of The Bell Curve and similar studies and statements made by James Watson. I am sure that no one here champions those beliefs. My previous post already debunked this anyways.
Just say that you support transgender people because it is what the mainstream left has told you to do. You can't justify it, or prove it,and it isn't any different than Rachel Dolezal.Don't try to change scientific definitions to suit mentally ill delusional people, because until someone can change their chromosomes with the power of their mind, that is just what they are.

 

[deleted]

A bigot asking me to justify my tolerance

WATTBA

 

[Mark Antony]

sooo.. in the military you have to perform fitness tests and the guidelines are different for men and women..
which test do transgender people take? the male of female standard they identify with or the standard in which they are born?

Imagine a society where we figure things out as we evolve. Like how they genuinely believed back then minorities were incapable of flying planes or being executives but they figured it out. I honestly don't know, doesn't mean you close the book though.

 

[Baby Newport]

I a hunnit percent agree that trans fools shouldn't be allowed in our military.

Our country going extra soft btw.

 

[mvp07]

I a hunnit percent agree that trans fools shouldn't be allowed in our military.

Our country going extra soft btw.

Yeah, but the US is also the forefront for progress and advancement though, in all aspects !

If a female transition into a Man and want to actually fight, do you actually care? Why not !

Everybody is speculating here though. We all know the military need bodies at all times, the more the better , regardless of the gender. They've probably weighed the pro's and con's for now and ultimately, they probably preferred to pay for a new grade weapon than surgeries and other medical expense

When LGBT community lobby team is as strong as Northrop/Booz, the outcome will be different.

 

[getback]

You can't ask someone why they committed suicide. An educated guess is the best that you can do.

How about a suicide note? Something they said to someone before they committed the act? What about directly from the person's mouth after a failed attempt?

Did you seriously believe an "educated guess" was the only way to determine reason for suicide?

 

[getback]

Do you all believe that the government should be forced to give female specific loans to men who "feel" like woman?

They already do I believe. A convicted murderer in MA who is currently serving life is on his way to getting gender reassignment surgery on the state's tab.

 

[gracian]

A bigot asking me to justify my tolerance

WATTBA

Zero valid arguments, just name calling. Typical.

How about a suicide note? Something they said to someone before they committed the act? What about directly from the person's mouth after a failed attempt?

Did you seriously believe an "educated guess" was the only way to determine reason for suicide?

You can't get anything from someone who has committed suicide. We are talking about suicides here, not attempts. Not everybody leaves a suicide note.

They already do I believe. A convicted murderer in MA who is currently serving life is on his way to getting gender reassignment surgery on the state's tab.

This is the world that you all have created. What a time to be alive.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I am not bigoted towards transgender people. I feel sorry for you all because you can't accept the reality of who you are. It must be terrible to have such self hatred that you would actually take unnecessary drugs and mutilate your body parts to achieve some sense of self love. I don't think that the military should provide those drugs or be forced to indulge in fantasies.

This is some low level internet debating skills. I must only take issue with your ignorance because I myself are transgender.

Dude gimmie a break and learn how to form a cogent argument. Not one base on reaches, goal post moving and bigotry.

Once again, I don't have to indulge you in the fantasy that the nonsense you spew is reasonable .